Adj. cam pulleys for Masi 16V DOHC. Any interest?

[4 l-bodies]

I talked on the phone with Fidanza today 2/27/07 about possibility of making up some adjustable cam pulleys for the Cosworth (Masi) DOHC 16V motor.

The good news is they are willing! They will make these if we can come up with 25 sets (50) total pieces. After committing, and CNC programing, it will take about 6 weeks to complete the project. Pricing certainly hasn't been finalized, but should be about double what the SOHC pulleys go for (since there are two). My best off the top of my head price would be around $250 for the set. Hopefully lower. Until we have enough commitment to buy, these will be sold in pairs only.

Please pass the word along to all the Masi 16V owners that might be interested and email me Todd Nelson at Omnishelby@yahoo.com if you are interested in being in on this group buy. If we don't get 25 people to commit it's not going to happen. I am not doing this for income, so as a result, I am not willing to shell out approx. $6000 up front to make this happen.

The Fidanza current generation pulleys have allan socketed bolts threaded into the pulley. In other words, there is no need to hold the other side of bolt with an allan wrench (like there is any room on our motors anyway).

We really need to start putting our heads and pocketbooks together to get parts made for these motors. I think we need to take this approach on other parts like valve cover gaskets, cam covers, rod bearings, etc. If we try to do this individually, nothing will ever get done.

Give me any feedback that you might have.

Regards,
Todd Nelson

[Xtrempickup]

do you realize there are 501 Masi motors out there tentatively, of which you need 25 ppl to want cam gears for it. some of these ppl dont even realize their car is rare and can make more HP. and i wonder of the 501 how many are left, i would think maybe 1/2 or 3/4 at best. its a shot, I just bought TIII gears for 279$, dont think i can go for a set for the masi, the rest of the parts are expensive and rare enough as it is

[4 l-bodies]

do you realize there are 501 Masi motors out there tentatively, of which you need 25 ppl to want cam gears for it. some of these ppl dont even realize their car is rare and can make more HP. and i wonder of the 501 how many are left, i would think maybe 1/2 or 3/4 at best. its a shot, I just bought TIII gears for 279$, dont think i can go for a set for the masi, the rest of the parts are expensive and rare enough as it is

You don't need to school me or any 16V Masi owner on Masi motors. We know what we have. I believe you have owned one 16V TC, and barely ever have drove it, let alone wrenched on it much. You got it running, that's great, but hardy an expert on these motors.
I seem to remember recently setting you straight on another 16V motor (HH head). Your right though, not many Masi 16V motors were produced. You might be forgeting about all the spare and prototype heads. More than a total of 501 of these heads were made. With three people contacted, I am 20% there already.

You seem to be committed to selling your motor, so as a result we weren't counting on you to purchase a set. Thanks though for your input, duly noted.

Good luck with the Lotus motor.
Todd Nelson

[2.216VTurbo]

Todd, I have only respect for your efforts to make another performance part available for my favorite motor, it's more than I have taken on and you deserve props for it IMO. When I read Extreme's somewhat negative reply (possibly unintentional, he gets the benefit of the doubt) I thought about pasting up his quote about 'how much he will enjoy' parting out his TC come spring. So obviously, he's no fan of his TC, maybe he does recognize the potential of the powerplant though since he plans on keeping the motor for a future project. Since your goal is to make the gears availble for the 16V Masi enthusisasts, my thought is a vendor could step in for us to make up for any minumum order shortfall. I have contacted one of the TD vendors for a little help.

I'm with you on this, mark me down for three sets of gears:thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

I don't see why we need such a high minimum order at all. Can't they just flip the gear over on thier jig and stamp the mark and then do the same with the laser etching on the gear? It's not hard to have the .100 or so machined off after the fact.

Are they gonna look like the ones in the Ebay auction? Or has fidanza redesigned them?? Would be nice to see a pic of the current ones if they are different. I'll probably be up for a set.

[4 l-bodies]

I don't see why we need such a high minimum order at all. Can't they just flip the gear over on thier jig and stamp the mark and then do the same with the laser etching on the gear? It's not hard to have the .100 or so machined off after the fact.

Are they gonna look like the ones in the Ebay auction? Or has fidanza redesigned them?? Would be nice to see a pic of the current ones if they are different. I'll probably be up for a set.

I tried for the absolute bare minimum order. I did explain in detail what needs to change to work in our application. It will be similar to the current gen SOHC but will be sort of a mirror image of it. I do have a current round tooth SOHC Fidanza sprocket on a motor I'm putting together. I will take a picture of it tomorrow. Maybe I can email it to Alan or someone that is a member and they can post, or maybe it's time for me to subscribe. It is close to the one on Ebay except for some minor changes to the adjustment hardware.
Where Fidanza will save is in programing for CNC. Like you said, very few changes will have to be made to the SOHC program. I'm hoping that savings will get passed back to us in lower set-up costs. That is the main reason why they could not give a firm quote. They obviously need something in hand before doing so.
They know this could be a one time only run for them, so it's not a huge incentive for them. Fifty pieces will make it worth their while, under that, and it's not worth the effort. The other issue is labor, as their are quite a few steps in making the pulleys, and the other issue is that while our cam pulleys are in the CNC machines, other larger quantity pieces are not. I guess we are just a small fish in the big pond.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Well I was just seeing it as it should be another run of SOHC gears. Then in the secondary ops where they stamp the mark on the inner gear and looks like they laser etch the marks on the outer gear it would seem it would be as easy as just flipping the gear over since the 1st batch they made were already on the "correct" hehe side for us. As far as machining them down to the right thickness it's easy for me to do that at work. If the min order was smaller I'd be willing to do that to all the gears. But I can't do 50 gears under the radar :)

I excitedly await a picture.

thanks.

[ShelbyTC16v]

I am most likely in too Todd. So I believe you are much more than 20% of the way now.

[4 l-bodies]

I have an update on interested parties. The bad news is only seven Masi owners have committed to purchasing at this point. The good news is, those seven owners have really stepped up to the plate. We are half way to our goal of 25 cars. This does not include a vendor that may step in to help should we need them to. Let your fellow Masi owners know that this could be a one time deal, and if they plan on EVER rebuilding their motor, that this will be the easy way to correct the retarded cam timing which will be the unintentional result of rebuilding.

One needs to make hay while the sun shines. How many of us would now order valve cover gaskets, timing belts, rod bearings, timing covers, headgaskets, parking light lenses, cornering lights and headlights, etc. "IF" we knew back then, what we know now?

A perfect recent example of this will be the people that didn't order the Masi valves from Rick will in years to come, will have wished they had. The look on their face after getting a price quote when trying to get one set of custom valves made for their motor will be priceless. And who is to say they will get the valves correctly made the first go around? I know they won't get a better quality valve than Rick got made up. They will probably pay double what the group paid, and end up with inferior valves.

I can't count the number of times my fellow SD enthusiasts have wanted to know where they can get that oil pan, fuel rail, intercooler, 2 & 4 bolt billet main caps, S-60 harness, ECU, etc. that they see on some of my cars. I no longer even feel sorry for them when I tell them that they missed out, that they are not available anymore. Those who snooze... often times lose.

For those that can post on this forum, I do have some pics available of the current generation cam pulley for the SOHC motors. Our DOHC pulleys would look similar. I already have sent these to a couple people on this thread. LMK if anyone needs any more info.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Todd count me in for 1 set.

[4 l-bodies]

We have less than ten sets to get commitments for.:cheer2:
Todd

[OMNI-Potent]

Awesome!

So it looks like it will happen?

[4 l-bodies]

Awesome!

So it looks like it will happen?

We shall see. Looking more promising than a few days ago. Just not willing to stick my neck out for thousands of dollars and have a pile of Masi pulleys I can't sell. This is a pretty small market were dealing with, I can't lose sight of that. I just wish more TC owners would see the light on why this would be a good thing to purchase while the opportunity presents itself.

One thing that I was thinking about is trying to have them designed so they could be used for 8V SOHC by reversing the gear and adding a bushing. Obviously the timing marks would also have to be put on both sides of the pulley. Wheels are turning in my hamster cage. Either that or we need to cast more Masi heads.:D Yeah that's the ticket!!!
Todd

[Xtrempickup]

don't worry, I hate to say this but, casting Masi heads would be great, but somebody who will remain nameless has a better head in the recasting stage and that is gonna put all them and the hybrids to sleep. just wait as blast from the past is coming back soon.

[ShelbyTC16v]

don't worry, I hate to say this but, casting Masi heads would be great, but somebody who will remain nameless has a better head in the recasting stage and that is gonna put all them and the hybrids to sleep. just wait as blast from the past is coming back soon.


Okay, I won't ask who, but how about this head? What is it or what is it based on?

[Xtrempickup]

I wont say any more, it's been discussed before this head, but thats all i'll say. Shelby had the right idea i'll leave it at that

[GLHNSLHT2]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.

[4 l-bodies]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.
The whole Fidanza pulley would have to be redone as the ID on the backside is not the same ID as the frontside. In other words, you can't just reverse the inner piece of the Fidanza pulley, as it doesn't fit. Wish it was that easy. If you look closely at the pics I sent you, you can see the thickness of the outer ring is different from front to back.
If it could be designed to be reversable, you would need some sort of bushing or spacer to make it work on the 8V applications. What would be correct alignment for a 16V would be not correct for a 8v.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.
The whole Fidanza pulley would have to be redone as the ID on the backside is not the same ID as the frontside. In other words, you can't just reverse the inner piece of the Fidanza pulley, as it doesn't fit. Wish it was that easy. If you look closely at the pics I sent you, you can see the thickness of the outer ring is different from front to back.
If it could be designed to be reversable, you would need some sort of bushing or spacer to make it work on the 8V applications. What would be correct alignment for a 16V would be not correct for a 8v.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.
The whole Fidanza pulley would have to be redone as the ID on the backside is not the same ID as the frontside. In other words, you can't just reverse the inner piece of the Fidanza pulley, as it doesn't fit. Wish it was that easy. If you look closely at the pics I sent you, you can see the thickness of the outer ring is different from front to back.
If it could be designed to be reversable, you would need some sort of bushing or spacer to make it work on the 8V applications. What would be correct alignment for a 16V would be not correct for a 8v.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

I wont say any more, it's been discussed before this head, but thats all i'll say. Shelby had the right idea i'll leave it at that
If your referring to the recasting of the HH head. I'll be very surprised if that ever happens. That is not new news, I've heard that rumor for five years, yet I still see no heads. It would be several thousand dollars for each casting, would also need intake and exhaust manifolds. Well out of reach financially for most SD enthusiasts. Add in all the R&D work developing camshafts and valvetrain components, to sell how many? I'm not holding my breath. How many takers at $5000 a pop?
After all is said and done, "IF" it ever got made, I'll bet the flow (as cast) would not be as good as some of the ported Masi heads out there.
I hope I'm wrong. I wish I'm wrong! The HH re-cast rumor is not a secret. Your not letting the cat out of the bag, so please enlighten us. Your chance to school us with your inside knowledge of the subject!
Todd

[ShelbyTC16v]

Well said Todd.

To extrempickup,
If you are a fellow SD enthusiest as the rest of us, why keep it a secret when it's been discussed?? You might be waiting a lifetime for something to never happen. However, if you let other people in, they might just be able to help out.



If your referring to the recasting of the HH head. I'll be very surprised if that ever happens. That is not new news, I've heard that rumor for five years, yet I still see no heads. It would be several thousand dollars for each casting, would also need intake and exhaust manifolds. Well out of reach financially for most SD enthusiasts. Add in all the R&D work developing camshafts and valvetrain components, to sell how many? I'm not holding my breath. How many takers at $5000 a pop?
After all is said and done, "IF" it ever got made, I'll bet the flow (as cast) would not be as good as some of the ported Masi heads out there.
I hope I'm wrong. I wish I'm wrong! The HH re-cast rumor is not a secret. Your not letting the cat out of the bag, so please enlighten us. Your chance to school us with your inside knowledge of the subject!
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

What's the title of this thread again?? If you wait around to buy things that might happen in the TD world I've got a bridge for sale.

Todd, I see what you mean about the gears. I only looked at the 1st pic originally. I didn't see there were more :)

[Xtrempickup]

its not my project and i was asked to say nothing much of it. mold is already made and money already put out. just wait and see, its within the next year to be back i would say

[ShelbyTC16v]

its not my project and i was asked to say nothing much of it. mold is already made and money already put out. just wait and see, its within the next year to be back i would say


Hey that's cool. I just have a hard time understanding why is has to be "top secret" or as the U. S. Government would say, "beyond top secret". Makes absolutely no sense to me. But.....whatever. ;)

[2.216VTurbo]

BTW Bill, nice to have another TC fan on this forum:D One at a time, eventually we'll own the world Muhwhaaahh aahh aahh:evil:

BTW, I've put up lots of TC related pics over the last couple years if you want to search a bit. Try TC in the title;)

[ShelbyTC16v]

BTW Bill, nice to have another TC fan on this forum:D One at a time, eventually we'll own the world Muhwhaaahh aahh aahh:evil:

BTW, I've put up lots of TC related pics over the last couple years if you want to search a bit. Try TC in the title;)

Thanks Alan. I'll try that search. But if I don't find anything, I'm gonna hunt you down! :lol:

[4 l-bodies]

Okay TC 16V owners,
Here is the latest update. We are within four sets of our goal! This is 13 owners wanting 21 sets. This is with one vendor helping with three sets. It's been pretty slow going trying to get the last few sets for commitment, so if you guys know any other 16v owners that are willing, have them contact me. Remember they will need about six weeks to get these done.
Todd

[lansingsportsrage]

If its possible for them to make adjustable cam pulleys, could they make transfer gears ?

[daver]

Any word on this? How many did we get up too on last count?

[daver]

Is this topic definitely dead..? Interest dried up?

Is anybody considering selling pre-modified SOHC Fidanza pulleys for the Masi motors?

I can't imagine it would add too much to the cost to have new timing marks etched and a small amount shaved off the back..

[Xtrempickup]

wow 4 sets to go thats impressive. i hate to even think about purchasing them considering i still have 2 motors and finally an idea for one of them. how come no discussion on the TC board where the TC ppl live considering a bunch dont own anything but

[2.216VTurbo]

wow 4 sets to go thats impressive. i hate to even think about purchasing them considering i still have 2 motors and finally an idea for one of them. how come no discussion on the TC board where the TC ppl live considering a bunch dont own anything but


Tom,

Not sure I'm following your post up there? Are you drinking pretty heavily tonight? Thats what my posts look like when I drink:lol:

Are you asking why the folks on the TC list aren't getting in on some adj cam sprokets? Do you know what the median age is on that list:confused: ?? I think there were like four guys with walkers at the last TC Nats I went to... I'll update that number tomorrow at the Florida TC nats:thumb: I'm bringing tools and will be busy with little fix it items like repacking rear bearings and adjusting ignition timing:eyebrows: The TC folks have never seen such modern wizardry believe me:lol:

[Xtrempickup]

im asking why not post the idea for them, not that 75 yr old and above parapalegics and those with dementia and alzheimers want more performance from their car, but some will buy anything if they think it would be neat for their car. even if they dont know what it is. honestly, as long as they paid for them you know you can count that into your number and you can get them made

[daver]

Is the Masi I-shaft gear the same as the cams, or is it a standard SOHC piece?

If it's the same as the cam gear I might be convinced to pickup a 3rd cam gear to replace the I shaft gear just to shave a little rotating weight.

That would get us to what 3 more gears required to get this rolling?

[GLHNSLHT2]

I would assume it's the same as a SOHC motor as the cam gears are shaved down just to clear the valve cover a bit better. I could measure it today and find out for sure though.

[Xtrempickup]

so the gears are similar just thinner than a SOHC?

[GLHNSLHT2]

The gears are exactly the same down to the part #. They just milled a bit off the valve cover side because the cam gears are on backwards.

[johnl]

The gears are exactly the same down to the part #. They just milled a bit off the valve cover side because the cam gears are on backwards.

So . . . does that mean that any existing adjustable cam gear can be milled and flipped over and it bolts on? Too good to be true.

Todd, I'm in if you still wanna do it.

[GLHNSLHT2]

yes, but then you can't see the timing marks.

[johnl]

yes, but then you can't see the timing marks.

Other than that they would be milled off, couldn't you look at em from the driver's side?

[Xtrempickup]

thats what i was thinking if they were cheaper or just mirror image and put the marks on the opposite side yourself

[4 l-bodies]

im asking why not post the idea for them, not that 75 yr old and above parapalegics and those with dementia and alzheimers want more performance from their car, but some will buy anything if they think it would be neat for their car. even if they dont know what it is. honestly, as long as they paid for them you know you can count that into your number and you can get them made

A post was also made to both TC forums when I first posted this possible group buy. About the only response was "why would I need this"? I think maybe one person committed from the two forums.

Thanks John, I'll put you on the list. I may call them up next week and try to get some more exact cost figures. The only way they will do this is to send them a set. My motor is just sitting patiently on the engine stand, so that isn't a issue. Just hope I get them back.

Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

it'd be a real pain to see them from the drivers side. The cam gears are milled .100" thinner than the intermediate shaft.

[4 l-bodies]

Okay, I bring this thread back from the dead. Fidanza now has my stock Masi sprockets and is going to get me some firmer pricing in the next couple weeks. I will be emailing many of you that previously expressed interest in the next day or two to see if you are still a player or not. As I said before this will be a one time shot and more than likely will never be remade. So if your interested, step up and be counted. The one mod I will be having done is timing marks on the outer cog that actually line up with the cam centerline (like the SOHC cars). That way you won't have to pull the cover to pin the cams.
If you are interested and do not receive a private email, contact me either on this forum or by email.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Todd, since I have a 2nd Masi head on the way upgrade me from 1 to TWO SETS!!!!!

[2.216VTurbo]

Todd, since I have a 2nd Masi head on the way upgrade me from 1 to TWO SETS!!!!!

Good, because since ths thread was last going I scored one set so I only need two sets now. So that's a push Todd;)

[4 l-bodies]

Good, because since ths thread was last going I scored one set so I only need two sets now. So that's a push Todd;)

Alan,
With you buying Joe's car or motor and you scoring one set, I'm now down two sets between you two. Hopefully Johnl and Daver are still interested. Anybody have a current email addy for Mark Gilbert? Mark lives in Bakerfield, CA. He was also penciled in for two sets. His old email addy got bounced back.
Todd

[2.216VTurbo]

Alan,
With you buying Joe's car or motor and you scoring one set, I'm now down two sets between you two. Hopefully Johnl and Daver are still interested. Anybody have a current email addy for Mark Gilbert? Mark lives in Bakerfield, CA. He was also penciled in for two sets. His old email addy got bounced back.
Todd
Rick has Mark's contact info, he sold him an upgraded turbo:thumb:

[johnl]

I'm in. LMK Todd.

As for you other cheap b******s, you'll build more Masi cars, buy a set for the shelf.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Well said John!!!

[4 l-bodies]

Last chance to be in on the group buy. Still need to hear from several people that were previously interested. Order and deposit has been placed! Now the waiting game.:p Not too late to order, I can increase the quantity right up until they are run. Probably looking at 4-6 weeks until they are in my hands.

Thanks to all that committed for making this happen!:clap:

Okay who wants to get the ball rolling on Masi valve cover gaskets? Anyone have a NOS one to use for a sample? It will be returned unharmed. My gasket is still in one piece, but it is pretty much petrified.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

Guys thanks to all that got in on the group buy! I have sent out emails with further instructions on time frame, payment, etc. If you didn't get my email get a hold of me, or look in your spam box.
These are very close to being all pre-sold so if you were sleeping and still want in on this, you best contact me pronto.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

The pulleys have been shipped to me by Fidanza. I will have them the week of March 22/09. They will be mailed to those that have paid ASAP. Once again THANKS for those that participated in the group buy!
Todd

[turbovanman²]

Take pics and post up before you mail them out, :thumb:

[4 l-bodies]

Take pics and post up before you mail them out, :thumb:

Here they are. See attachment. Obviously two per set.:p
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

its not my project and i was asked to say nothing much of it. mold is already made and money already put out. just wait and see, its within the next year to be back i would say


It's been over 2 years. Where's the head?

[2.216VTurbo]

It's been over 2 years. Where's the head?

I've been married for 10 years and I'm asking the exact same question:eyebrows:...

Those gear look like they were worth the wait Todd, good hardware, nice markings, clean look (no garish red or blue:yuck:) and they look lightweight. How do they compare wieghtwise vs stock gears?


I'll be expecting mine any day now then:eyebrows: Set them to 113' right?

[GLHNSLHT2]

LMAO Alan! Hey Alan can you PM me Todd's address, I thought I had it but I can't find it to send him my check. I've got an email out to him but would like to drop it in the mail today if possible.

[4 l-bodies]

113 is stock centerline. My intake cam was advanced a couple degrees and came out to be 111.25. Me too to the other statement. Funny how that works.:confused2:
I have to drop off another cylinder head next Monday at the shop, so I'll get you a weight measurement then. I'm confident everyone will be satisfied with the pulleys. i think they turned out nice! First batch of pulleys have been shipped! Look for them early next week.
Todd





I've been married for 10 years and I'm asking the exact same question:eyebrows:...

Those gear look like they were worth the wait Todd, good hardware, nice markings, clean look (no garish red or blue:yuck:) and they look lightweight. How do they compare wieghtwise vs stock gears?


I'll be expecting mine any day now then:eyebrows: Set them to 113' right?

[4 l-bodies]

LMAO Alan! Hey Alan can you PM me Todd's address, I thought I had it but I can't find it to send him my check. I've got an email out to him but would like to drop it in the mail today if possible.
As Alan can confirm, I was wrenching in the garage all day. I did get your email and address has been sent.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

I've been married for 10 years and I'm asking the exact same question:eyebrows:...

Those gear look like they were worth the wait Todd, good hardware, nice markings, clean look (no garish red or blue:yuck:) and they look lightweight. How do they compare wieghtwise vs stock gears?


I'll be expecting mine any day now then:eyebrows: Set them to 113' right?

Alan and group,
The pulleys weigh 388.0 6g each X2 =776.0g
Stock weigh 693.5g X2 = 1387g
Net savings of -611g or 56% less weight.
Todd

[2.216VTurbo]

Got mine today:love: They are some kinda sweet:thumb: Wish I could get another set...

[johnl]

Got mine too. Thanks Todd!

[GLHNSLHT2]

Alan and group,
The pulleys weigh 388.0 6g each X2 =776.0g
Stock weigh 693.5g X2 = 1387g
Net savings of -611g or 56% less weight.
Todd


Todd I know how you got your # but I don't think it's correct. If 2 stock gears weighth 1387 and you have a 50% weight savings over that then the total weight should be 693.5 grams for 50%. But we only save 611 grams. Less than 50%. If you take 1387 x 0.44 (44%) then you get around 611. So I'm gonna say it's a 44% weight savings. Am I correct? Still a good amount. My gears are turning on how to save a little more weight but I'll talk to you about that later possibly.

Thanks, can't wait to see mine.

[4 l-bodies]

Todd I know how you got your # but I don't think it's correct. If 2 stock gears weighth 1387 and you have a 50% weight savings over that then the total weight should be 693.5 grams for 50%. But we only save 611 grams. Less than 50%. If you take 1387 x 0.44 (44%) then you get around 611. So I'm gonna say it's a 44% weight savings. Am I correct? Still a good amount. My gears are turning on how to save a little more weight but I'll talk to you about that later possibly.

Thanks, can't wait to see mine.
LOL your right! I should have said they weight about 56% of the stock weights, or a little over half the weight.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Got mine today Todd, They're nice, I have to take them apart and deburr them all the way though. Might even have the center's anodized red. I know Alan got his anodized pink :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

What's the E and the I stand for? and why are there marks next to them?

[4 l-bodies]

What's the E and the I stand for? and why are there marks next to them?
Hi Jay,
The masi pulleys have no marks like the 8v "arrows" to assist in setting cam timing. The factory relied on "pinning" the cams. This requires the removal of the valve cover. I added the new marks on there to assist you in doing field repairs and diagnostics. I still recommend pinning the cams if you have the valve cover off, but this gives you a quick check to see if cam timing is correct without removing the valve cover. Pretty clever huh?;)

The two small holes in the cam pulleys are actually below the cam cap centerline, so that is not a very accurate way checking or setting cam timing.

With the very limited availability of valve cover gaskets for our motors, and their propensity to leak, you will come to find a sealed masi valvecover something you will not want to disturb.

If you don't like the additional marks I had installed or you just find them confusing, just take a Sharpe and black them out. I enclosed a couple pics to help illustrate my point. Note the yellow mark on the stock pulley was never placed there by the factory. I placed that there for Fidanza's benefit. The red mark is a factory mark which is used for setting the aux. shaft to crank sprocket timing. It is of no use for cam timing, so those marks were omiited on the adjustable pulleys.

Call or email me if you have any questions.

Todd

[johnl]

The small holes are on the key way line, right? And, since you can't see the key way when the cam gear bolts are tight, they are used to help you point the two key ways at each other, and when they do, they are zeroed, right?

[4 l-bodies]

The small holes are on the key way line, right? And, since you can't see the key way when the cam gear bolts are tight, they are used to help you point the two key ways at each other, and when they do, they are zeroed, right?
John,
Yes but, if you look at the PDF attachment, it shows the small holes are below the cam cap centerline when the cams are pinned. The very top of the small holes are close to the centerline. I thought the scribed "I" and "E" lines would be a little easier to read. They should be parallel to the cam cap centerline. If you look at the two pics, you will see what I mean.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

OK I got it! I=Intake E=Exhaust. Pics are worth a thousand words. I never wanted to omit the marks just was curious what they were for. I haven't timed a masi yet :)

[johnl]

Good; makes it easier. I thought it was parralax (sp?) or a bad visual angle, so in timing the cam with the stock gears, I laid a straight edge across the cam bolts and the center line of the bolts and the small holes looking for all to line up. At least that's what I think I remember what I did. LOL

[2.216VTurbo]

OK I got it! I=Intake E=Exhaust. Pics are worth a thousand words. I never wanted to omit the marks just was curious what they were for. I haven't timed a masi yet :)

It's actually Itallian, Inspiracion and Exparzole or something close to that without actually checking the FSM but yeah, you have the idea;)

[GLHNSLHT2]

you guys might want to back out the allen bolts and put some red loctite on them. I was tightening one up and the bolt started to back out.

[4 l-bodies]

you guys might want to back out the allen bolts and put some red loctite on them. I was tightening one up and the bolt started to back out.
Jay,
I agree. I tried to get Fidanza to put in larger as well as grade 8 fasteners when these where in the planning stages. They must have a boat load of stainless fasteners, so that kind of fell on deaf ears. I've replaced my hardware with grade 8 fasteners on previous pulleys that I have bought. I have found the socketed side doesn't hold the allen key very well on their stainless bolts. I also have applied 271 red loctite on mine.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Jay,
I agree. I tried to get Fidanza to put in larger as well as grade 8 fasteners when these where in the planning stages. They must have a boat load of stainless fasteners, so that kind of fell on deaf ears. I've replaced my hardware with grade 8 fasteners on previous pulleys that I have bought.

unfortunately with their design a larger stud/bolt is pretty much impossible.


I have found the socketed side doesn't hold the allen key very well on their stainless bolts. I also have applied 271 red loctite on mine.
Todd

The socketed side? I assume you're talking about the head of the button headed bolt? A socket head would hold the allen key much better.

I think the ideal setup would of been an STI thread of the current bolt size with a locking heli-coil installed and a set screw for a stud. But there's not even enough material to do that eyeballing it.

My plan is to back all the allen bolts out, possibly replace them with a socket head style and use permanent strength loctite on them so they NEVER come out.

They mention 5 adjusting bolts, we only have 4, should we increase the torque spec?

Other than a couple small things these are really nice, I'm glad I got in on the group buy. Thanks again Todd for facilitating this.

[4 l-bodies]

unfortunately with their design a larger stud/bolt is pretty much impossible.


The socketed side? I assume you're talking about the head of the button headed bolt? A socket head would hold the allen key much better.

I think the ideal setup would of been an STI thread of the current bolt size with a locking heli-coil installed and a set screw for a stud. But there's not even enough material to do that eyeballing it.

My plan is to back all the allen bolts out, possibly replace them with a socket head style and use permanent strength loctite on them so they NEVER come out.

They mention 5 adjusting bolts, we only have 4, should we increase the torque spec?

Other than a couple small things these are really nice, I'm glad I got in on the group buy. Thanks again Todd for facilitating this.

Jay and group,
I would maybe increase the torque only if you went with a stronger bolt/nut. The stainless has it's strong points, but grade 8 is much tougher, but prone to rust. I think their instructions are generic, but the torque spec. seems about right for that size fastener. Problem is getting an inch lb torque wrench to all the nuts could be a challenge. I also think it's a bit unrealistic that people are going to torque them lets say while at the chassis dyno. Like you say, Loctite them on the bottom of the bolt and you should be good to go. Note the instructions call for a drop of semi-permanent sealant on the nut side.
Yeah I think they turned out pretty nice. I found they were reluctant to budge on certain points. I wanted larger studs, and didn't need 12 degrees of adjustment (when one full tooth equals nine degrees). Pretty much the things they brag about on the packaging, is the things they didn't want to change. To their credit they kept working on the product until I and they were satisfied. It's very nice that the sprocket is hard anodized. Many aftermarket ones are not.
One other thing I should mention is I don't think I would torque the sprocket to cam bolt to the full 60-65 lbs that the factory recommends. My reasoning stems from the fact that the stock gears are sintered iron and the Fidanza are aluminum. I have read the Honda boys are having issues with this. They are actually mushrooming the sprocket hole. I would think a little Loctite once again on the bolt and say 40lbs should do the trick.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

heh speaking of the torque spec on the factory pulleys OMG. Thankfully they're just 8v square tooth gears. I had to destroy them to get the bolts out. What weak a$$ valve springs too. You can turn the cam over with your bare hands. I had to lock a pair of vice grips on each gear so they'd turn into eachother and not move. But that ripped parts of the teeth off. Before tightening up the bolts onto the Adj pulleys I'm gonna chase the threads with a tap to clean out the tons of loctite the factory used and clean up the bolts. I agree in not torquing them down as much as the soft aluminum or it'll mushroom.

[4 l-bodies]

heh speaking of the torque spec on the factory pulleys OMG. Thankfully they're just 8v square tooth gears. I had to destroy them to get the bolts out. What weak a$$ valve springs too. You can turn the cam over with your bare hands. I had to lock a pair of vice grips on each gear so they'd turn into eachother and not move. But that ripped parts of the teeth off. Before tightening up the bolts onto the Adj pulleys I'm gonna chase the threads with a tap to clean out the tons of loctite the factory used and clean up the bolts. I agree in not torquing them down as much as the soft aluminum or it'll mushroom.
Jay,
I have maybe 45 minutes of time and about $5 in materials making this tool. Do yourself a favor and make or have one made up. The tool holds the sprocket and you put the 19mm socket in the hole. Pics of similar ones are in the FSM.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

cool tool. I was able to get the pulleys off my other head just fine but the timing belt might of still been on. It's been so long I can't remember.

[Xtrempickup]

got mine today, these are nice.