Few questions, anyone help appreciated.

[Mysterio]

I have been having problems running rich, which I figured out was the 804 injectors one was leaking plus they're too big for the stock LM. So I put stocker injectors back in, I'm running stock injectors & a walbro 255 pump with an AFPR set to 55 psi.

I don't THINK that I am running rich anymore but top end of the car is none. I can feel it sputtering at 65 mph in 5th gear if I floor it. It has a lack of power all the way around too.

I replaced the o2 sensor since it wasn't reading which was part of the problem for running rich and that is fixed now, but it was COVERED in soot.

I have been getting oil blowing out of my blow off valve too, not a TON but every few days I check and there's a decent ammount around it.

My question is, is it possible that the oil seal or whatever in the turbo is bad and it's sucking oil through the intake manifold into the block? Thus putting oil into the cylinders making me lose power? Would that also cause a TON of soot in the exhaust? My plugs are getting fouled out pretty fast too. I don't want to have a buy a new turbo due to lack of $ right now, but if that's the problem i'm going to have to. How can I check?


Also, my car is an 87 shelby charger, has a stock T1 LM. I also have a stock T1 LM from an 88 new yorker. Are these pretty much the same calibration wise or is one better than the other to use?



OH YEA. Also, I've gone from origionally getting ~25 mpg to down to 10-15. The MPG dropped around when I noticed oil comming from the blow off valve.

[overlordsshadow]

If you were running pig rich did you check the plugs to see if they are okay? As in not covered in 'soot'

[Mysterio]

If you were running pig rich did you check the plugs to see if they are okay? As in not covered in 'soot'

They were changed after I changed injectors & o2 sensor. And are now black colored again. I *shouldn't* be running rich with stock injectors, stock LM, 255 walbro fuel pump and an AFPR set to 55 with vacuum off.

At least I think I changed them when I did the o2 sensor, if not that same day only a few days before hand. I guess in those few days they could have gotten shitty.. But really, that doesn't explain the lack of mileage. I'm not running rich now, even if I'm missfiring every now and again, i wouldn't lose an entire 15 MPG.

[mo' parts]

sounds like you may have a ring/ piston problem. run a compression test, that much blo-by and fouling plugs is a sure sign of oil consumption, wether it be from rings, or turbo. is the car smoking at all?(the nicotine patch wont help either) does your oil smell like gas? does your charge pipe from the turbo have oil in it, or in the cover? have you dropped the downpipe to see if the swingvalve is wet?
just some suggestions, always, always try to find the exact problem before any repairs. it is costly to be just a "parts changer"
hope it helps
87' is a pm/lm, 88' is a smec, they wont interchange.
also, check your vaccume line to the fpr for gas fumes, could be a leaky reg. also.

[mcsvt]

^^ Good suggestions. I agree with the compression check. I was having similar oil out my BOV before a piston let go, then oil came out everywhere...

So I would do a compression and a leak down if possible. How is the turbo, any shaftplay?

[turbovanman²]

A compression check is on order, agreed. Whats your idle vacuum? have you checked your cam and ignition timing? Cat plugged? whats your air/fuel guage say?

[Mysterio]

A compression check is on order, agreed. Whats your idle vacuum? have you checked your cam and ignition timing? Cat plugged? whats your air/fuel guage say?


Idle vacuum varies, my idle kinda moves around at bit, at 1000 rpm idle it would be around 14, at 1600 17-20.

I haven't had a chance to check my cam timing but I have the ignition at 10*.

I don't know if the cat is plugged or not that was a thought but I haven't had a chance to really check.

I don't currently have an air/fuel guage.


The car is blowing some white smoke, not a ton though. I just assumed it was the usual since it is cold and it's hot exhaust.

I'll have to go through and do a compression test I guess. I hope it's not a ring or piston problem.

As for the computer I meant an 86 LM from a new yorker, not an 88, sorry :).


I haven't had a chance to check for oil anywhere except comming out of the blow off valve. Although I do know there IS oil inside the intake manifold, I have my vacuum block off the port on the back of the IM and I changed something on it and there WAS oil inside of it.

[mo' parts]

when does it smoke? all the time? on start up? when revved?
im interested in the comp. #'s.... i think you may find one around 90 ish psi:(
unless the leaky injector washed the rings in that cylinder.
my car just went back together from these same symptoms, (besides the leaky inj.) now i have a total of 4 ashtrays in my garage.

[turbovanman²]

The white smoke should go away, so that could be a sign something is up.
14 inchs of vacuum at idle is bad, either cam timing or compression issue?
Oil inside intake is fairly normal, especially if the PCV system isn't working or hooked up properly. Even if it is, some oil will get into the intake due to the design.

[Mysterio]

Welp. I DO have gas inside my oil I just checked it. I'll be running a compression test when my dad gets home and he can find the stuff to do it. I'll let you guys know the numbers once I get em.


Also it only blows white smoke under hard acceleration. Before it was blowing black smoke but now that I've fixed the running rich problem it just blows some white smoke under hard accel. It's not a TON but there's definetly white smoke there.

[Mysterio]

This car is starting to become a pain in my --- :-D

[mcsvt]

Have you changed your oil since replaceing the injectors?

Also, if you haven't changed the oil yet and are planning on driving the car
around still, you really should change it soon. You will most likely wipe out
your bearings...

[Tony Hanna]

+1 for changing the oil. Also, when you do a compression test, if you get a cylinder that's a bit lower than the others, squirt some oil in the cylinder and test it again. If the compression comes up, then you'll know it's rings. I wouldn't get too bummed out about it if it is the rings. You can hone the cylinders and throw a new set of rings in without ever having to pull the engine. Should be able to do it in a weekend no problem.

[Mysterio]

+1 for changing the oil. Also, when you do a compression test, if you get a cylinder that's a bit lower than the others, squirt some oil in the cylinder and test it again. If the compression comes up, then you'll know it's rings. I wouldn't get too bummed out about it if it is the rings. You can hone the cylinders and throw a new set of rings in without ever having to pull the engine. Should be able to do it in a weekend no problem.

Yea I'm sure I can do the rings myself no problem. It's just more work than I want to be doing lol.. I ended up getting home late today so I didn't get a chance to do a compression test it's first thing on my agenda for tomorrow though.

I just wish I had the money to upgrade some of the internals while i was at it since I would have the engine apart. Maybe at least for now i'll get the head ported or maybe port the intake manifold some while it's all off. Who knows.

I'll definetly be changing the oil tomorrow ASAP also. I don't need to be messing anything else up before I get a chance to figure out/fix what is wrong now.

[Mysterio]

compression test on my car:

cylinder #1: 135
cylinder #2: 70
cylinder #3: 130
cylinder #4: 130


Lol... Looks like i'm going to be looking for a junk yard motor.

[Tony Hanna]

compression test on my car:

cylinder #1: 135
cylinder #2: 70
cylinder #3: 130
cylinder #4: 130


Lol... Looks like i'm going to be looking for a junk yard motor.

Did you try squirting some oil in #2 and testing it again? That'll tell you if it's the rings or another issue.

[Mysterio]

Did you try squirting some oil in #2 and testing it again? That'll tell you if it's the rings or another issue.

With oil in the cylinder it went up to about 85. I forgot to say that before.

[Tony Hanna]

With oil in the cylinder it went up to about 85. I forgot to say that before.

That's interesting. If it was just rings, I'd think the jump in compression would have been a little more dramatic when you tried it with oil. I'm thinking there's something else going on there. Busted piston maybe...

[mcsvt]

Yeah possibly cracked piston. I wouldn't give up on the motor. Just needs a quick rebuild.

[Tony Hanna]

Yeah possibly cracked piston. I wouldn't give up on the motor. Just needs a quick rebuild.

^ +1 Pop the head off, drop the oil pan, pull the pistons, hone the cylinders, rering the 3 good slugs and a replacement for the bad one and put it back together with some new rod and main bearings. At least then you know what you've got instead of spending money on a junkyard engine that may not last a week.

[Mysterio]

I don't have anywhere to do all that. I cannot use my dad's garage as he's using it to build some stuff. Thus the reason for wanting to buy another motor and spending a day swapping rather than 2 weeks rebuilding my motor with my car dead in the garage.

[turbovanman²]

My guess is a valve, 99% of the time, a broken piston is around 90-95 psi.

That would explain the rich running, poor vaccum etc. Cracked pistons still have good vacuum, run fairly well and run almost normal. Been there done that.

[Mysterio]

I was wrong, The compression on #2 with oil inside it was 115. Not 85. Memory failed me. I called my dad and asked him and he remembered that it was 115. So does that mean it IS a piston ring and not the actual piston>?


Anyways. For now I changed the oil & I disconnected the hose between the turbo and the throttle body so I won't build up any boost on the turbo. Hopefully the lack of compression from no boost will help the ring/piston/whatever last a bit longer until I can get time to fix it.

[turbovanman²]

I was wrong, The compression on #2 with oil inside it was 115. Not 85. Memory failed me. I called my dad and asked him and he remembered that it was 115. So does that mean it IS a piston ring and not the actual piston>?


Anyways. For now I changed the oil & I disconnected the hose between the turbo and the throttle body so I won't build up any boost on the turbo. Hopefully the lack of compression from no boost will help the ring/piston/whatever last a bit longer until I can get time to fix it.

So it was 85 then came up to 115 with oil? if so, yep, a rering is needed.

[mo' parts]

the last piston i broke, it was 90-92 psi, after driving it about 20 or so more miles knowing this, it ended up at about 60psi. it did come up a little with oil, but i knew what was wrong. drop the pan, pull the head and swap that piston out. as long as it isnt completely destroyed, you can prob. still use the rings.
good luck

[Mysterio]

The compression was 70-80 range without oil. Bumped to 115 with oil in that cylinder. I had my numbers kinda mixed up lol. Those are the correct numbers for our test though. Hopefully I can get my dad to let me use the garage for a few days soon so I can really get into the motor and do this ---- :(

[cordes]

Don't disconnect the turbo from the manifold. Running the turbo like that can damage it severely, and quickly.

[Mysterio]

Don't disconnect the turbo from the manifold. Running the turbo like that can damage it severely, and quickly.

Whats the best way to not run boost then? I can't fix the car right away and I don't want to ---- it up quicker by having the extra compression from boost.

[cordes]

Whats the best way to not run boost then? I can't fix the car right away and I don't want to ---- it up quicker by having the extra compression from boost.

Don't push the pedal too far down.

[mcsvt]

Straight manifold pressure to the WG will give you minimal boost. And as Cordes said, stay outa the gas :)

If you have all the parts before you tear into it, you really could do the job in a day, 2 max taking your time checking things twice so it's done right the first time. That's how I did mine :thumb:

[Mysterio]

So I checked th cylinder that was previously at 70 compression today. And it is now reading 125 compression. What is up with that?

I ran some of that "compression booster / ring sealer" ---- that is like syrup.. I doubt that made much of a difference though. I just put it in there in the hope it would help the motor last the next few weeks before I could tear it apart.

Is it possible since I had been running so SUPER rich that carbon deposits made the ring stick and was reading crappy compression and since I fixed my fuel problem it blew it all out?

The car never really ran "bad" per say, it sputters top end on the highway but I'm almost positive it's because of a bad oil seal in my turbo. I blow oil out of my blow off valve and the inside of all my pipes between turbo -> throttle body are coated in oil.

[Mysterio]

I dropped the fuel pressure to down around 38 with the vacuum line on to compensate for the oversized pump and now the car runs perfect. Son of a! haha..

[turbovanman²]

Thats great to hear, :thumb:

[cordes]

I dropped the fuel pressure to down around 38 with the vacuum line on to compensate for the oversized pump and now the car runs perfect. Son of a! haha..

You should NOT have to drop the FP that low with those injectors. Something is awry, and you need to fix it. 38PSI is somewhere inbetween where you would need it for +20s or +40s., not stock flowing replacements.

[turbovanman²]

You should NOT have to drop the FP that low with those injectors. Something is awry, and you need to fix it. 38PSI is somewhere inbetween where you would need it for +20s or +40s., not stock flowing replacements.


Maybe they were boxed wrong or they gave him +20's instead? can you read the number on the injectors?

[cordes]

Maybe they were boxed wrong or they gave him +20's instead? can you read the number on the injectors?
I immagine that could be the case, but I would want to make darn sure, because he WILL melt something otherwise.

[turbovanman²]

I immagine that could be the case, but I would want to make darn sure, because he WILL melt something otherwise.


Good eye, :amen:

[Mysterio]

I got them from Dave on here. I assume he would have given me stock injectors and not + 20's. With the pressure at 38 the car seems to run perfect. No problems at all. So I don't really know? I'm going to try and get it on a dyno tomorrow with a wideband sniffer so I can adjust my fuel ratio properly.


Ever since I had installed the walbro 255 fuel pump I had been running stupid rich, with the same exact setup as before except the bigger pump my car started running way richer blowing all kinds of black smoke.

I'll go check the numbers on the injectors in a bit and make sure they're stockers.

[Mysterio]

Ok I have a question. Why is it that on the highway or if i'm doing anything above 25 mph and I push in the clutch so the engine is idling, while moving my vacuum is right at 20. Then once I come to a complete stop my idle drops down to around 1000 from the 1200-1300 that it idles at while moving and the vacuum drops to 13-15??? Is that normal?

[cordes]

Ok I have a question. Why is it that on the highway or if i'm doing anything above 25 mph and I push in the clutch so the engine is idling, while moving my vacuum is right at 20. Then once I come to a complete stop my idle drops down to around 1000 from the 1200-1300 that it idles at while moving and the vacuum drops to 13-15??? Is that normal?

No if you are only pulling 14-15"hg. at 900-1K RPM idle, you should check out your cam timing. Triple check it. You should be pulling 18" at idle.

I know that Dave was running +20s in his spirit for a while. You REALLY need to check the PN on the injectors so we can figure out what is going on there.

[Tony Hanna]

No if you are only pulling 14-15"hg. at 900-1K RPM idle, you should check out your cam timing. Triple check it. You should be pulling 18" at idle...


Depends alot on what kind of boost gauge he's running too. The stock boost gauges in these cars were aweful as far as accuracy. I swear they were only put in as eye candy. My Sundance with the stock gauge would only show 15" at a 900-1k rpm idle. But on the other hand it would also show ~4psi of boost with the engine shut off.:)
With the aftermarket gauge, it idles at around 20"

[Mysterio]

It's an aftermarket but it's a cheap one.. "Sports comp".

I'll check the injectors tomorrow I just got back from NY. After driving 3 hours back to Ohio I don't feel like working on the car right now. I'll have to double check the cam timing too I never got around to doing it yet. I started to remove the timing cover and the bolts were kinda stripped so I didn't bother after that and completely forgot to go back out and get it all the way off and check.

[Tony Hanna]

It's an aftermarket but it's a cheap one.. "Sports comp".

I'll check the injectors tomorrow I just got back from NY. After driving 3 hours back to Ohio I don't feel like working on the car right now. I'll have to double check the cam timing too I never got around to doing it yet. I started to remove the timing cover and the bolts were kinda stripped so I didn't bother after that and completely forgot to go back out and get it all the way off and check.

Generally, even a cheap aftermarket gauge is much closer than the stock one. Since you're getting a vac reading like that with an aftermarket gauge, I agree with cordes about checking the cam timing.
Good luck,

[Mysterio]

I checked the cam timing and it looked like it was right.. I'm not 100% sure since ive never done it before but it looked to be correct.


I tried to adjust the distributor timing after checking cam timing and when I disconnect the coolent temp sensor on the side of the theromstat housing the car won't idle it just stalls itself. But if I leave it plugged in when I'm watching the timing marks with the gun it jumps around.

What's up with that?

[Capt'n Dave]

I would bet that the dist. is not set in right with the engine and cam time,i can tell by looking at mine that some one had at one time pulled it and never got it quite right,loosen the clamp on the dist. with the coolant sensor unhooked,have some one crank the motor while you use the timming light move the dist. to see if you can find the marks and get it to idle,then tighten it up,rehook the sensor and check your timming,should make a difference!I hope this helps!:thumb:

[Mysterio]

I would bet that the dist. is not set in right with the engine and cam time,i can tell by looking at mine that some one had at one time pulled it and never got it quite right,loosen the clamp on the dist. with the coolant sensor unhooked,have some one crank the motor while you use the timming light move the dist. to see if you can find the marks and get it to idle,then tighten it up,rehook the sensor and check your timming,should make a difference!I hope this helps!:thumb:

With the coolent temp sensor plugged in it was jumping around a bit but i got it set to 12* and the car runs beautiful. No top end sputtering on the highway, idles right at 18-20 on the vacuum side. So I dunno?

[cordes]

With the coolent temp sensor plugged in it was jumping around a bit but i got it set to 12* and the car runs beautiful. No top end sputtering on the highway, idles right at 18-20 on the vacuum side. So I dunno?

That ignition timing was severely off to cause that much of a difference in idle vac. You need to go to www.thedodgegarage.com and look at the way Gary does his timing. That is the best way to do it. Like I said, you will want to triple check that cam timing, especially if you have never done it before.

Also, what is the PN on those injectors? You need to figure out what is going on with that yesterday.