cold start injector and adding fuel

[mo' parts]

my omni is going back together and im going to be needing more fuel. i have everything for the extra injector set-up, but it seems as though the inj. is plugged up. it has resistance so i know its not burnt up or anything, but it wouldnt flow anything, not even a drop. is there anyway to clean these or am i going to have to find another?
also, are there any other standard "free" flowing type of injectors that could be used since we cant use pulse inejectors? or should i just make a winter washer fluid set-up?
reason being, i was layed off a week and a half ago and there is no money at this time for +20's:( i eventually want to run the water/alky set anyway.

[Tony Hanna]

Does it click when you put 12v to it?
If you can't blow through it with it powered up then something is wrong. I don't know if you can clean those or not. Might try compressed air through it backwards with it powered up. Followed by a healthy dose of carb cleaner. I'd say any type of injector designed for 100% duty cycle would work but how much boost it would support would vary depending on the flow.
Personally I always liked using a fuel solenoid and fogger nozzle from a nitrous kit for an extra injector since you can tune it by swapping jets.

[mo' parts]

Does it click when you put 12v to it?
If you can't blow through it with it powered up then something is wrong. I don't know if you can clean those or not. Might try compressed air through it backwards with it powered up. Followed by a healthy dose of carb cleaner. I'd say any type of injector designed for 100% duty cycle would work but how much boost it would support would vary depending on the flow.
Personally I always liked using a fuel solenoid and fogger nozzle from a nitrous kit for an extra injector since you can tune it by swapping jets.

thats basically what i ended up doing, brake parts cleaner in the injector and power, after a few times of that i saw a drip:thumb:
then i continued doing that with a hose connected and compreessed air, and after about an hour i have a nice fine mist.
i did some researching and there are quite a few vehicles that use these, but was amazed at the prices for new ones....
anyway i think i may be going to the fuel solenoid and fogger nozzle in the future along with a healthy dose of alky:)
thanks for the reply

[Tony Hanna]

You're welcome. Glad to hear you got it sorted out.:thumb:
Yeah, the prices are pretty crazy for new ones aren't they? I'm pretty sure GM used a cold start injector in some of the TPI 350s. Being that it's a pretty large displacement engine, I wonder how much boost one of those would support? I might have to track one of those down and test it out.

[mo' parts]

You're welcome. Glad to hear you got it sorted out.:thumb:
Yeah, the prices are pretty crazy for new ones aren't they? I'm pretty sure GM used a cold start injector in some of the TPI 350s. Being that it's a pretty large displacement engine, I wonder how much boost one of those would support? I might have to track one of those down and test it out.

yea, i couldnt find much out about flow rates on most, but i didnt look real hard. they used them on fiero's,camry-celicas, supra's, jags, camaros-firebirds and the list goes on. most mount up the same basic way as well.
but at least i have an idea what to look for in the yards, even though it will prob mean sending them out to be flowed...
care to share some of the ins/outs of the fogger nozzles? like sizes and suppoting boost levels. i know alot is trial and error,tuning , but i would like to have a base starting point. if i ever get my omni converted to smec(i have everything, including a socketed smec) i plan on working with the d-cal programs. ive just been reading and lurking for now.

[turbovanman²]

When I did that trick, I used VW cold start injectors, there flow quite nicely. I used 3 of them and got me to around 18 psi on stock fuel pump, injectors and no AFPR.

There for sale if you want them, :eyebrows:

[mo' parts]

When I did that trick, I used VW cold start injectors, there flow quite nicely. I used 3 of them and got me to around 18 psi on stock fuel pump, injectors and no AFPR.

There for sale if you want them, :eyebrows:

thanks simon..PM sent:)

got my zener diodes today:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

...care to share some of the ins/outs of the fogger nozzles? like sizes and suppoting boost levels. i know alot is trial and error,tuning , but i would like to have a base starting point. if i ever get my omni converted to smec(i have everything, including a socketed smec) i plan on working with the d-cal programs. ive just been reading and lurking for now.

Tuning a solenoid/fogger nozzle setup is pretty easy. There are jet size calculators on the internet for nitrous systems that will tell you what size fuel jet you need to support x horsepower at y fuel pressure. You just fill in the variables and the calculator will spit out a jet size that will be pretty close.
Here's an example. Say I want to run 30 psi in the Sundance. I've got a zener on the map so the computer isn't supplying any additional fuel for over 15 psi. Figuring roughly 7hp per psi gives me a rough estimate of the horsepower I want to support. In this case 105 horsepower. Then I plug 105 horsepower into the calculator along with fuel pressure (I'm gonna go with 55 psi for this example).
http://www.azsupersport.com/nitrousjetcalc.asp
According to the calculator, to support 105 horsepower (15 psi) at 55psi fuel pressure I'll need a .026 fuel jet in the fogger nozzle.
This is just a rough starting point. As with anything else, you want to start with your boost set low and bring it up slowly while watching your a/f and egt. It will get you in the ballpark though.
HTH,

[mo' parts]

Tuning a solenoid/fogger nozzle setup is pretty easy. There are jet size calculators on the internet for nitrous systems that will tell you what size fuel jet you need to support x horsepower at y fuel pressure. You just fill in the variables and the calculator will spit out a jet size that will be pretty close.
Here's an example. Say I want to run 30 psi in the Sundance. I've got a zener on the map so the computer isn't supplying any additional fuel for over 15 psi. Figuring roughly 7hp per psi gives me a rough estimate of the horsepower I want to support. In this case 105 horsepower. Then I plug 105 horsepower into the calculator along with fuel pressure (I'm gonna go with 55 psi for this example).
http://www.azsupersport.com/nitrousjetcalc.asp
According to the calculator, to support 105 horsepower (15 psi) at 55psi fuel pressure I'll need a .026 fuel jet in the fogger nozzle.
This is just a rough starting point. As with anything else, you want to start with your boost set low and bring it up slowly while watching your a/f and egt. It will get you in the ballpark though.
HTH,

thank you very much, great link btw.

[Tony Hanna]

thank you very much, great link btw.

Glad I could help.:)
I'm going to be doing this again once I get the intercooler plumbing taken care of, so I should have it all pretty fresh in my mind if you have anymore questions.
The biggest problem with the whole setup is finding a jet assortment with the right size jets. It's ok when you're supporting enough hp to need jets in the common size range, but someone that's only wanting to support the hp you'd get from 2-4 psi might have trouble finding a jet assortment with more than 1 or 2 that are small enough to be close.
I'm going to have to see if undrilled jet blanks are available. With a few of those and the right set of drills, a person would be set to tune as precisely as they wanted to.:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

This thread has got the gears turning in my head. I'm working out the design for a nozzle built out of a piece of brake line that can be brazed into the upper intercooler pipe and use regular NOS jets. If it works, it should be something anybody could build with a tubing cutter, a file, and a pair of pliers.
I just need to build it and see how well it atomizes fuel.
If this works out like I hope, a person should be able to put together a tunable extra injector setup for less than $20 over the cost of the solenoid and pressure switch.
If somebody could help me out with ideas for something to use in place of the fuel solenoid, I could lay out the plans for a DIY system that would be super cheap to build.

[mo' parts]

sounds very interesting, and promising. keep us updated, i'll keep an eye out for some sort 12v solenoid....

[Tony Hanna]

I sure will. I did do a little digging and found that the smallest size jet commonly available is a .014. That should be about right for around 18 psi. So the jet blanks and orfice drills should only be necessary if a person wanted to run less than that but the blanks are available. Both Edelbrock and Nitrous Works sell them.

I'm still working on ideas for a low cost alternative to the fuel solenoid but I have come up with one idea. I don't know how a cold start injector works internally, so this might not work out. The idea is to drill the tip out on a cold start injector and get it to flow close to line volume when it's on. Then it would simply be a matter of clamping a piece of hose over the tip of the injector and running it to the nozzle. It sounds good in my head, but without knowing how the injector is made internally, I have no way of knowing if it would work or if I'd just end up destroying the injector. I need to see if I can find one cheap/free to experiment on.

[turbovanman²]

I used a NOS nozzle when I built my homemade alky setup, its very easy to use. As for the solenoid, use a fuel NOS solenoid.

[Tony Hanna]

I used a NOS nozzle when I built my homemade alky setup, its very easy to use. As for the solenoid, use a fuel NOS solenoid.

Right. That's what I've done in the past and will do on the Sundance. Probably as an extra injector for now and as part of an alky system eventually. I was just trying to hash out a way to build a tunable setup on the cheap for somebody that didn't have spare nitrous kit parts laying around.
You're looking at around $30 for the nozzle and around $60 for the solenoid. Add in the pressure switch, lines, jets, and any miscellaneous fittings and you could easily get $150+ into it unless you got some deals off ebay.
If a person were to build their own nozzle, and find some sort of junkyard part to serve as a fuel solenoid (drilled out cold start injector for example), that cost estimate comes down considerably.

[Tony Hanna]

I've made it a little deeper into this project so I figured I'd post what I've come up with so far.
A 3/16" compression fitting makes an excellent jet holder for the NOS brand jets. All that's required is drilling the center of the fitting with a 5/32" bit just deep enough that the stem will fit down inside it and the body of the jet will rest flush against the edge of the fitting.
We're not talking much here maybe 1/16"
The AN fitting on the line coming from the solenoid fits the threads on the compression fitting body perfectly and the other end leaves me with a perfect way to attach the piece of 3/16" brake line that will become the nozzle.
Speaking of nozzles, check out the 2 pics of fogger nozzles. Notice anything similar between them?
That's right, both of them discharge against an angled piece at the tip.
I'm pretty confident that the fuel bouncing off of the angled piece is solely responsible for atomization with this type nozzle. You can see the same effect on a larger scale by holding a spoon at an angle under a faucet. The beauty part is it should be super easy to duplicate the design out of a single piece of brake line.
Making the nozzle out of a single piece is mandatory for 2 reasons. The first being ease of construction and the second being durability. We don't want a complicated nozzle coming apart and going through the engine.:nod:
I'm going to get started on the nozzle itself later and try to test the rig out and see how it works. If it works ok, I'll post pics and instructions on how to build it.

[Tony Hanna]

Well, here's what I ended up with. You can probably get a good idea of how I made the tip of the nozzle just by looking at it. Basically I just ground down the end of the brake line into a U shape, smashed it flat with a pair of vise grips, bent it to the proper angle with pliers, and then cleaned it up with the grinder and a small file. To get the angle right, I just eyeballed it off of the pictures of the nitrous nozzles. Also got a picture of the compression fitting turned jet holder and a jet to show how everything goes together. The fitting on the line from the solenoid goes over the jet and threads onto the compression fitting clamping the jet in place and (hopefully) sealing it up.
So far I've got a whopping $5 and 15 minutes in this project vs. $30+ for an actual nozzle.
Some people might call that being cheap, but I call it $25 worth of beer money or a nice dinner.:)
I'll hook the thing up to the solenoid and spray some fuel through it later today and post the results. Right now I think I'm gonna get some sleep since I've been up all night.:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

Well, it works. It seems to atomize fuel better than the real fogger nozzle I have.
So... $5 brake line extra injector nozzle for the win.:thumb:
Now I just need to order a .014 jet, drill a hole in my upper IC pipe about 6" before the TB, braze the nozzle in place, and hook up the pressure switch. I'll get everything assembled and try to post a pic of the completed system later tonight. Gonna let the gas fumes clear out of the garage before I get started.:thumb:

Here's a pic of the homemade nozzle in action. I know it looks like it's spraying massive ammounts of fuel. That's because all the jets I have laying around are friggin huge. It's gonna stink waiting on the right size jet to get here since I could have the system installed and working tonight.

[mo' parts]

nice!! cant wait to hear how it works, this is right up my alley at the moment.
how about 1 for each cylinder in the manifold:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

nice!! cant wait to hear how it works, this is right up my alley at the moment.
how about 1 for each cylinder in the manifold:thumb:

Thanks!
I'm curious to see how it works as well. I have high hopes though as it seems to atomize the fuel at least as good as a store bought nozzle. I see no reason why you couldn't do a setup like this with nozzles for each cylinder. Mounting would be different of course and it would take some really tiny jets to tune it. Overall it really shouldn't be any different than messing with direct port nitrous, and that's pretty simple to set up.

I revised my plan for mounting the nozzle. I'm lazy and didn't want to have to pull the upper IC pipe to braze it in. With this setup, I should be able to grease a drill bit to catch the shavings, drill the pipe in place, and mount the nozzle. What I ended up doing was brazing the leftover ferrel from the compression fitting to the nozzle. Once that was done I drilled a 3/16" hole in a hose clamp, slid the nozzle in, and reattached the compression fitting (jet holder). I also scored the nut on the compression fitting with a file so I can tell which direction the nozzle is pointing once it's in the pipe. A small piece of vacuum line goes over the nozzle and gets compressed between the clamp and IC pipe to act as a gasket. The whole thing assembled looks really similar to a clamp in style EGT probe which is what gave me the idea in the first place.

[Tony Hanna]

Here it is mounted in a piece of pipe for demo purposes. The depth of the nozzle into the pipe should be adjustable based on the length of the vacuum line "gasket". I'm gonna play with the depth some and try to get the spray centered in the pipe. It'll probably be different for every nozzle due to slight differences in the angle of the tip, but should be fine as long as it's not spraying directly against the pipe.

[Tony Hanna]

I got the nozzle, solenoid, and pressure switch installed. All that's left to do is the wiring and mounting an indicator light inside the car which I hope to take care of later tonight.
I decided to use a 30 amp relay between the pressure switch and the solenoid for safety sake. These solenoids have a pretty high amp draw which increases with fuel pressure and the pressure switch is only rated for something like 5 amps.

I took a couple pics of the nozzle installed in the car.

The first is of the stainless braided line with AN fittings running from the solenoid to the nozzle.

The second pic shows an alternate method. If you don't have the braided line and would rather use regular fuel line, it's easy to do. Just a piece of 3/16" brake line and the leftover nut from the compression fitting. The flare on the brake line seals against the jet and the nut holds everything together. This leaves you with a 3/16" line attached to the nozzle that you can clamp a piece of 3/16" hose over. Just be sure and use a couple or 3 clamps to secure the hose since there is no barb to hold it.
I'll post again later with details on how to wire everything.

[Tony Hanna]

Got the system completely finished. All that's left is to dial in the setpoint on the pressure switch and order the right size jet.

The wiring is pretty simple really. It requires a hot feed to the COM terminal on the pressure switch, a wire from the N/O terminal on the pressure switch to one side of the coil in the relay, a ground wire to the other side of the coil in the relay, a hot wire to one side of the contacts in the relay, a wire from the other side of the contacts to one of the solenoid wires, and a ground wire to the other solenoid wire. Got all that?:D

Seriously, the relay I used was part # A715 from Advance. It's a 30 amp relay and cost $3.97. You should find it wherever they keep the fog light crap. The instructions on how to wire the relay are on the back of the package. If you follow them, you can't go wrong.

I also elected to run a second hot wire from the N/O terminal on the pressure switch inside the car. It's connected to an indicator light that I mounted beside the boost gauge. The other wire from the indicator is tapped into the instrument light ground.
The indicator light is optional but is really handy for adjusting the set point on the pressure switch. It can also serve as a warning if the system loses power. If you're over the boost setting for the pressure switch and the indicator isn't lit, you know something is wrong.

Here are a couple more pics. The first is of the completed system. You can see the pressure switch behind the throttlebody on top of the intake. It's connected to a "T" in the hose running from the manifold to the brake booster. The solenoid and relay are both against the strut tower. You can also sort of make out the feed line. It runs from the fuel pressure tap on the fuel rail to the solenoid.

The second pic is of the indicator. I mounted it right next to the boost gauge to make it easy to see the boost pressure vs. when the light comes on. It should make adjusting the pressure switch a snap.

That's it for now. Any questions, feel free to give me a shout. I'll post again with news on how it does once I get the right size jet installed and some testing done.

[mo' parts]

cant wait to hear how well it works!
my car is up and running great:) im lovin the 2 piece and the port job.
if this system works well, im gonna go this route, ill be installing my zener diode today. i have the 5th injector in place, but changing it to this would be a snap.
keep the creative ideas comin Tony:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

cant wait to hear how well it works!
my car is up and running great:) im lovin the 2 piece and the port job.
if this system works well, im gonna go this route, ill be installing my zener diode today. i have the 5th injector in place, but changing it to this would be a snap.
keep the creative ideas comin Tony:thumb:

Hopefully I'll have something to report by tomorrow night. I don't know if I mentioned it or not but Advance can order nitrous jets. I tried Summit originally, but they wanted $8 for the jet and a $10 handeling fee. I wasn't about to pay $18 for a single nitrous jet when you can get an assortment pack from Jegs for about $15.
Anyhow, I struck up a conversation with a guy at Advance and it came out that they could order the jets. Turns out they can get them for $5. Only problem was they have to call the warehouse to order and it was already closed. So, I'm gonna give them a call in a couple hours and see if they'll take a credit card over the phone to place the order. Hopefully they'll have it by tomorrow.
I'm going to wait to install my zener until after I have the jet in and the pressure switch set to about 12 psi just to stay safe. It seems like it might be running a touch lean and I don't want to run the risk of accidently going above 15 psi without the extra fuel.

If I hit on anymore ideas, I'll post 'em up. I'd still like to find a low cost alternative to the fuel solenoid, but I keep drawing a blank. The drilled out extra injector idea might work, or the solenoid from a pickup with dual tanks, but I don't have access to either to try them out.:confused:

I wonder if I should see if Frank can trim my posts out of this thread and add them to the knowledge center? I sort of picked up this project and ran with it and hijacked your thread in the process. Sorry about that.:o

[mo' parts]

Hopefully I'll have something to report by tomorrow night. I don't know if I mentioned it or not but Advance can order nitrous jets. I tried Summit originally, but they wanted $8 for the jet and a $10 handeling fee. I wasn't about to pay $18 for a single nitrous jet when you can get an assortment pack from Jegs for about $15.
Anyhow, I struck up a conversation with a guy at Advance and it came out that they could order the jets. Turns out they can get them for $5. Only problem was they have to call the warehouse to order and it was already closed. So, I'm gonna give them a call in a couple hours and see if they'll take a credit card over the phone to place the order. Hopefully they'll have it by tomorrow.
I'm going to wait to install my zener until after I have the jet in and the pressure switch set to about 12 psi just to stay safe. It seems like it might be running a touch lean and I don't want to run the risk of accidently going above 15 psi without the extra fuel.

If I hit on anymore ideas, I'll post 'em up. I'd still like to find a low cost alternative to the fuel solenoid, but I keep drawing a blank. The drilled out extra injector idea might work, or the solenoid from a pickup with dual tanks, but I don't have access to either to try them out.:confused:

I wonder if I should see if Frank can trim my posts out of this thread and add them to the knowledge center? I sort of picked up this project and ran with it and hijacked your thread in the process. Sorry about that.:o

not a problem:) my questions were answered and then some.

yeah, on a 4th gear run my egt's were approching 1550 with the stock fuel components at 15psi. i just need to get a fuel line and i can see how this 5th
injector is going to work.
ive got a custom tbi manny and intake on the back burner right now and am curious to incorporate a similar idea into it using a direct port set-up.:D

[Tony Hanna]

not a problem:) my questions were answered and then some.

yeah, on a 4th gear run my egt's were approching 1550 with the stock fuel components at 15psi. i just need to get a fuel line and i can see how this 5th
injector is going to work.
ive got a custom tbi manny and intake on the back burner right now and am curious to incorporate a similar idea into it using a direct port set-up.:D

I'm still trying to figure out what my EGT's should be. I've got the probe in the downpipe about 3" below the flange, so it reads a bit colder than everybody elses. When I pull the head to swap turbos, I'm gonna put it in the manifold where it belongs.:thumb:

The only problem I can see you having with a direct port setup is jet size. If I could work up a new nozzle design based on the funnel jets, it might be doable. They can be had in smaller sizes than a flare jet. To figure out what jet size you'd need for a direct port setup, work out your estimated horsepower based on the boost you want to support over stock and divide that number by 4. Then plug the result into the calculator along with your fuel pressure, and that will tell you what size each of the 4 jets will need to be. I'm guessing they're going to be pretty small.
If it can be made to work, it would be really handy. Especially if you ran 4 egt gauges.
Imagine being able to add a tiny bit of extra fuel to only your hottest cylinder to bring the EGT's down to match the other 3.:thumb:

A direct port alky system would be the hot ticket. Since it would use a different pump, you could adjust the pressure and the jets to really build some tunability into the system.
That would solve the small jet problem too. If the required jet size is too small, drop the pressure a little and recalculate.:)

[mo' parts]

A direct port alky system would be the hot ticket. Since it would use a different pump, you could adjust the pressure and the jets to really build some tunability into the system.
That would solve the small jet problem too. If the required jet size is too small, drop the pressure a little and recalculate.:)

i should have clarified.... alky is what i was refering to for the direct port:thumb:
the 5th inj. is just for now, ill prob. run it a few times at the track then switch to the alky w/ a single jet. maybe next season, or before, i can have the intake idea figured out.

[johnl]

Tony - very nice work. Good writeups and pics too. Thanks.

[Tony Hanna]

i should have clarified.... alky is what i was refering to for the direct port:thumb:
the 5th inj. is just for now, ill prob. run it a few times at the track then switch to the alky w/ a single jet. maybe next season, or before, i can have the intake idea figured out.
Yeah, that should work out great then. Just remember to subtract your max boost pressure from your pump pressure or you could go lean since there won't be a boost referenced regulator on the alky system.
Also, it takes more alky than gasoline to support a given horsepower. I think I added 40% more to the horsepower figure I put in the calculator when I was choosing a jet for the methanol injection on the old Daytona. For direct port methanol, you'll want to add 40% to your total predicted horsepower over stock and then divide by 4 so you get a size for each jet. If you do that, you'll probably be a little rich, but it'll run ok and you can tune from there.


Tony - very nice work. Good writeups and pics too. Thanks.

Thanks!:)

[Tony Hanna]

...keep the creative ideas comin Tony:thumb:

Your wish is my command.:D
I'm stuck without much to do while I'm waiting on the jet to get here so I'm a little bored tonight. Thought I'd drag out an old idea I had and used sucessfully for awhile. This one deals with the pressure switch.

Take a look at the picture. It's a simple oil pressure switch for a vehicle with an idiot light with a hose barb adapted onto it. It has 3 terminals on the back, a normally open, a normally closed and a com. It closes the circuit between the N/O and COM terminals at 5 psi. Pressure is pressure, so the switch doesn't really care if it's getting 5 psi of oil pressure or 5 psi of boost pressure. It'll close the circuit either way. :thumb:

Since 5 psi is a little early to activate an extra injector or alky system, I had to work out a way to make the switch wait until 12+ psi to close the contacts. The solution turned out to be really simple. I used a restrictor orfice, a "T" and a small valve. I think the valve I used was designed for an aquarium air line. It works exactly like a bleed type boost controller. The orfice limits the volume of boost getting to the switch and valve, and the valve dumps the excess up to a point. So by closing the valve, the switch closes at a lower pressure and by opening the valve, it closes at a higher presssure. Then it's just a matter of starting with the valve fully closed and opening it a little at a time until the swtch closes at the boost pressure you want.:)

You could get the same results with a g-valve type boost control as well. Just hook it up as though the switch were a wastegate can. In that case, the looser the g valve is set, the lower the boost pressure required to close the switch. The tighter the g valve is set, the higher the pressure.

I eventually gave up using an oil pressure switch in favor of a purpose built vac/pressure switch. It wasn't because of any problem with the switch. It worked flawlessly for a long time (and still does). It just looked cobbled up with the "T" and valve hanging off of it.
I still keep it around just incase I have a problem with one of the other switches and need a quick replacement.:thumb:
Unfortunately I've misplaced the valve, "T", and restrictor or I'd post a pic of how it all goes together. I figure you get the idea from the description though.

[Anonymous_User]

I think that would work excellent with a grainger valve instead of a bleed. Great thinking!!

[Tony Hanna]

I think that would work excellent with a grainger valve instead of a bleed. Great thinking!!

Thanks!

I'd say you're right, the bleed was a little touchy to adjust and would change it's setting slightly based on temperature and humidity. Not much though, I just always set it a couple psi low and never had a problem.
It was one of those deals where I had an extra injector at the time and nothing to activate it with so I looked around the garage and thought what can I make a pressure switch out of? I didn't have a spare grainger but did have the parts to rig up a bleed.:thumb:

What did you think of the homemade fogger nozzle from earlier in this thread?:)

edit: Pay me no mind, I'm just fishing for compliments now.:o :lol:

[Tony Hanna]

Nothing creative or homemade, but here's a solenoid for an alcohol injection system.
http://www.coolingmist.com/pagedisplay.aspx?feature_key=solenoids Bottom of the page.
"methanol safe" and considerably less expensive than a NOS fuel solenoid.
I got a heck of a deal on Ebay on one similar to that and ran it in my homebrew methanol injection system on the old Daytona.
Worked like a champ.:thumb:

[puppet]

Hey Tony ... on the direct port idea, how about your line and jet feeding a small distribution manifold (like a vacuum block). One line in with jet ... four out with foggers on each.

Edit: you've seen these solenoids?
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemKey=1A574

[Tony Hanna]

Hey Tony ... on the direct port idea, how about your line and jet feeding a small distribution manifold (like a vacuum block). One line in with jet ... four out with foggers on each.

That was pretty close to the idea I had except that I was thinking of having the solenoid feed the distribution block at line volume and a jet at each nozzle. I'm not real sure how well my homemade nozzles would atomize without having a jet in place. The nozzle design is centered around a small high velocity stream bouncing off of the tip to cause atomization. I'd be a little concerned that without a jet, there would be more of a tendancy for the liquid to wash down the inside of the nozzle and exit as more of a solid stream than a mist. The hole in the center of the compression fitting that the jet holder is made out of might be small enough to keep this from happening though. I'll give it a try without a jet the next time I have the nozzle out of the pipe and see how it sprays.:thumb:


Edit: you've seen these solenoids?
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemKey=1A574

I sure hadn't. That's a good find!:thumb: The only downside I can see is that you have to buy the coil seperately and they're only available in 24v and above from Grainger.
I don't see why a person couldn't wind their own coil for 12v though. It'd just be a matter of figuring out wire size and # of turns. Just give the center post on the solenoid a wrap of plastic tape, wind the proper number of turns with coated single strand copper wire of the proper gauge, test the resistance to make sure there's no short, and then give everything a good coat of 5 minute epoxy.:)

[puppet]

My guess is that the 24v coil would work on 12v just fine.

[Tony Hanna]

My guess is that the 24v coil would work on 12v just fine.

You're probably right, but it adds another $20 to the cost of the solenoid which puts the total cost in line with the water/alcohol solenoid I posted the link to.

On the other hand, if a person didn't mind taking the time to hand wind their own coil for the solenoid you posted, I bet it could be done really cheap. Free if you happened to have the right gauge wire and some epoxy laying around.:thumb:

I like doing stuff like that just for the satisfaction of having built it myself. If I save some money in the process, it makes it that much nicer.:)

[Tony Hanna]

A little update on the project. I got the .014 jet today and removed the nozzle from the upper IC pipe to try it out. The results were a bit disappointing. The volume of fuel being metered by the tiny jet is small enough that it has a hard time clearing the nozzle of excess fuel. What ends up happening is instead of a nice atomized spray, the fuel exits as a 2" long solid stream. To combat this, I've had to shorten the nozzle considerably and run a drill bit through the entire works (excluding the jet of course) to make sure the fuel has a perfectly straight shot from the jet to the end of the nozzle. So far, it seems to be working. I've got some more ideas I want to try out to improve atomization, before I go ahead and throw it back in. Hopefully I'll get the bugs worked out this evening and be able to test the system on the car.