PDA

View Full Version : FFV fuel rail flow


cordes
02-13-2007, 10:29 PM
I did not want to turn Clay's TU fuel rail post into a discussion, but how well do the FFV rails flow? I know that one needs more alky vol. to make the same power as gas, and that the stock FFV rail looks to me like it is externally the same as the one piece TI rails. It would seem to me that a TU rail or equivalent would be in order to keep things both equally distributed, and flowing enough.
Clay
02-13-2007, 11:26 PM
:) I think, but Im not certain becuase I havent seen a picture of an FFV rail in a long time....... but I think they are a flow through design, unlike the one and two piece intakes where the fuel actually does a u-turn inside the rail.

pictures anyone??
cordes
02-13-2007, 11:35 PM
:) I think, but Im not certain becuase I havent seen a picture of an FFV rail in a long time....... but I think they are a flow through design, unlike the one and two piece intakes where the fuel actually does a u-turn inside the rail.

pictures anyone??

If that is the case, then it very well may flow enough to lay down some good HP.
Mike_Shepard
02-14-2007, 03:28 AM
I have one on my daytona and love the looks. Okay well I thought I had one of the rail but I guess not

here is a pic

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/Mike_Shepard/P7190228-1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/Mike_Shepard/P7190226.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/Mike_Shepard/P7190228.jpg
Clay
02-14-2007, 10:32 AM
Hey mike, how does the rail work? I mean is it a flow through unit, or does it do a u-turn in the rail. Are both connections (inlet and return) on the same side of the rail?

thanks,
clay
Mike_Shepard
02-14-2007, 11:51 AM
They are inlet and return lines and yes it does a U-turn
But if you get one be sure you get the fuel lines before the braided lines they are 5/16 & 1/4 I could find the 5/16th all day long but no 1/4 to save my life. so we went back and cut the lines just at the footboard and used compression fittings to put it all together

I gotta charge my camera battery then I'll go get more pics of the rail
Clay
02-14-2007, 12:30 PM
a u-turn inside the tube or outside the tube?

Outside the tube (ie return line starts on the drivers side of the rail) = good

Inside the rail (ie both lines enter the rail on the pass. side) = no better than a TI rail for flow.

thanks,
clay
contraption22
02-14-2007, 01:27 PM
I have one. It's the same design as the turbo rail, but bigger, and stainless steel.
Mike_Shepard
02-14-2007, 01:42 PM
here are some pictures, If you need more specific let me know

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/Mike_Shepard/P2140006.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/Mike_Shepard/P2140003.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/Mike_Shepard/P2140001.jpg
cordes
02-14-2007, 02:30 PM
How much bigger is it than the stock rail? The way I have it figured, I will need something that will flow enough fuel for 95pph injectors so that I don't outgrow the setup too quickly.
Mike_Shepard
02-14-2007, 02:38 PM
Well looking at it, It looks like the outside overall diameter is the same But I dont have a Micrometer to verify exactly. and my +40s fit perfect so Im going to say inside is the same as well, Just made of different material
cordes
02-14-2007, 02:43 PM
Well looking at it, It looks like the outside overall diameter is the same But I dont have a Micrometer to verify exactly. and my +40s fit perfect so Im going to say inside is the same as well, Just made of different material

The cup for the injectors should be the same as it is a standard size. If the overall dia. of the rail is approximately the same, then I don't know that it would work for someone running a high HP setup.

Have we ever decided what the one and two piece rails are reliably good to? If we knew that we would be able to extrapolate as to the viability of the FFV rail in a turbo car. If the dia. is as close to the stock TI rail, as we think, it would be easy to calculate how much more fuel we would need.
Mike_Shepard
02-14-2007, 02:46 PM
I honestly have no Idea what they are good too, I hate to admit it but I mainly got mine for the braided lines LOL but it is stainless and looks awesome under there
inmyshadow
02-14-2007, 02:51 PM
This must be for older cars. The FFV fuel rail lines were plug and play on my 91 Shadow.

If anybody wants to pay to a FFV rail flow checked, I have a spare.



But if you get one be sure you get the fuel lines before the braided lines they are 5/16 & 1/4 I could find the 5/16th all day long but no 1/4 to save my life. so we went back and cut the lines just at the footboard and used compression fittings to put it all together
Austrian Dodge
02-14-2007, 04:07 PM
are those quick fittings on the SS fuel lines?? were did you get them? there's absolutely NO place to get them over :(
Mike_Shepard
02-14-2007, 04:15 PM
They are qwick fittings they came on the FFV rail. That is why I say to get some of the line too because nobody carries 1/4" qwick disconnects around here.

They came off a Dodge Spirit/Acclaim and from what I could tell and have heard they only came on Military vehicles
Clay
02-14-2007, 04:25 PM
they are common anymore in automotive and a/c usage. You should be able to get them through most good fitting suppliers. (ie Earls, Aeroquip). Worst case you can cut the quick connect fitting off, and put an aeroquip fitting on.
Austrian Dodge
02-14-2007, 06:57 PM
they are common anymore in automotive and a/c usage. You should be able to get them through most good fitting suppliers. (ie Earls, Aeroquip). Worst case you can cut the quick connect fitting off, and put an aeroquip fitting on.


nothing like that over here man ;)
i guess i'll wait till i modify my whole fuel system
TurboJerry
02-15-2007, 03:58 AM
They are the same as a Turbo rail.(flow that is) It has the same 5/16" tube through the middle of the big rail.........
Clay
02-15-2007, 09:28 AM
nothing like that over here man ;)
i guess i'll wait till i modify my whole fuel system

Do they sell Chrysler vehicles in the AU (at least identical ones)? Every Chrysler product Ive worked on in the last 10 years has had that quick connect from on the line that connects to the fuel rail.
Austrian Dodge
02-15-2007, 04:38 PM
hmm well they are vehicles for sure, but J/Y? :p
cordes
02-15-2007, 05:29 PM
They are the same as a Turbo rail.(flow that is) It has the same 5/16" tube through the middle of the big rail.........

Ok, so then we can know how far you can push alky through them if we know how much HP they will support. I know that the 5/16th fuel line should support upwards of 400HP in our cars with gas, but I don't know about the rail since the fuel has to make the turn etc in it.
tryingbe
02-16-2007, 01:31 AM
http://home.pcmagic.net/amazinghl/forsale/fuel.jpg

I have a rail for sale if anybody ones one.
TurboJerry
02-16-2007, 04:14 AM
Ok, so then we can know how far you can push alky through them if we know how much HP they will support. I know that the 5/16th fuel line should support upwards of 400HP in our cars with gas, but I don't know about the rail since the fuel has to make the turn etc in it.

The FFV rail has the same "turn" you talk about....... The amusing thing is that I'm sure the FFV's never made the 250 hp that the rail could support on E-85. (roughly half of gasoline hp)
cordes
02-16-2007, 06:18 PM
The FFV rail has the same "turn" you talk about....... The amusing thing is that I'm sure the FFV's never made the 250 hp that the rail could support on E-85. (roughly half of gasoline hp)

Ok, if the rail would only support about 250HP on E85, that probably won't work for a lot of us. I would have thought that it would have supported at least 300HP though.
Mike_Shepard
02-17-2007, 11:59 AM
Hmmmm I hope it supports more than 250
cordes
02-17-2007, 01:19 PM
Hmmmm I hope it supports more than 250

We are talking about how much HP it will support with alcohol, which will be much less than with gas since there is much more flow needed with the alky.
boost geek
02-17-2007, 10:39 PM
This is a stock 1 piece fuel rail that I cut the end off. I will either get a barb or some type of AN fitting welded on it, or I will weld the end shut, and supply fuel from the other end. The chamber on the other end is threaded, does the fuel rail have to make a U turn to get rid of air in the line, or will the air find it's way out? The tube I pulled out of the rail is the same size as the barb fitting, taking the tube out increases the volume of the rail by... ALOT!
Off to Lordco to find some fittings...
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1018.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1020.jpg
cordes
02-17-2007, 11:20 PM
This is a stock 1 piece fuel rail that I cut the end off. I will either get a barb or some type of AN fitting welded on it, or I will weld the end shut, and supply fuel from the other end. The chamber on the other end is threaded, does the fuel rail have to make a U turn to get rid of air in the line, or will the air find it's way out? The tube I pulled out of the rail is the same size as the barb fitting, taking the tube out increases the volume of the rail by ALOT!
Off to Lordco to find some fittings...
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1018.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1020.jpg

That is true, and it might be a viable option. I have heard that it is difficult to have the fittings welded on there though. I have seen a couple of TI rails that have had the fittings put on there, and work too though. I guess you just have to know what you are doing.
TurboJerry
02-18-2007, 11:36 PM
I do that so the stock regulator can be used for reliability, and feed it from the driver side so there's much less restriction. Use a steel 1/4" pipe bung, or a steel -6 to 1/4" pipe adapter and machine off the threads to weld to the rail. Then a 180 deg bent tube fitting makes a nice U-turn back to the pass side.
4 l-bodies
02-22-2007, 01:34 AM
[QUOTE=boost geek;127845]This is a stock 1 piece fuel rail that I cut the end off. I will either get a barb or some type of AN fitting welded on it, or I will weld the end shut, and supply fuel from the other end. The chamber on the other end is threaded, does the fuel rail have to make a U turn to get rid of air in the line, or will the air find it's way out? The tube I pulled out of the rail is the same size as the barb fitting, taking the tube out increases the volume of the rail by... ALOT!
Off to Lordco to find some fittings...]


Ed Peters sold this type of modified rail many years ago. I bought a total of three from him over the years. All three have leaked at some point or another. The biggest problem it seems at least with mine is that when loosening the regulator nuts they tend to bend the mounting tangs. One was bent so bad it leaked even before it had seen any use. Mine seem to always leak in this area eventually. The factory silver sodered these areas on the regular rails.
I'll bet the FFV stainless rail would hold up better in the long run.
I also found that when I had my green bodied FFV injectors cleaned, contrary to what I have seen posted, they flowed no more than 32/33 lbs injectors.
Todd Nelson
contraption22
02-22-2007, 10:50 AM
Ed Peters sold this type of modified rail many years ago. I bought a total of three from him over the years. All three have leaked at some point or another. The biggest problem it seems at least with mine is that when loosening the regulator nuts they tend to bend the mounting tangs. One was bent so bad it leaked even before it had seen any use. Mine seem to always leak in this area eventually. The factory silver sodered these areas on the regular rails.
I'll bet the FFV stainless rail would hold up better in the long run.
I also found that when I had my green bodied FFV injectors cleaned, contrary to what I have seen posted, they flowed no more than 32/33 lbs injectors.
Todd Nelson


Thats probably more than enough for a 150hp N/A engine, even when considering the increased volume demand of an alcohol engine.