Tuning...How to do it

[show-off]

What is the best way to tune your car before you dyno tune it?

I know you can adjust the AFPR by lowering and adjusting the pressure.

I guess my biggest question is on timing. I have an adj. fidanza cam gear. How does adjusting the timing help? Which way is advancing and retarding?

I am looking for a general lesson on how to tune your car with timing. I am at base 12* right now. How does going to 14* effect everything? Just look for good, factual info.
Thanks,
Mark

[cordes]

With the cam gear free to rotate, rotating the gear clockwise will retard the timing, and rotating it counter clockwise will advance the timing if I am not mistaken.

Advancing the timing will generally give you more power but sacrifice some top end, and retarding the timing will give you more top end, but will sacrifice lowend.

[show-off]

How much advance do you normally move the cam gear? I know some people run 14* timinig on the distributor. But if I am at 12* base how much would I adj the cam gear?

[cordes]

How much advance do you normally move the cam gear? I know some people run 14* timinig on the distributor. But if I am at 12* base how much would I adj the cam gear?

I don't think there is a cut and dry answer as to how much timing to run. Every setup will be different. The best way to go would be to run it on the dyno, or at the track. run it straight up (12*) and advance it one degree to see what it will do. If there is an improvement try to advance it another degree. If there is no change, or it is wose after first trying to advance it, try to retard it etc...

The key is to keep an eye on EGTs and any signs of detonation. Retarding the cam will supposedly raise EGTs and could cause a meltdown. However, advancing timing will leave you more prone to detonation etc...

Trial and error mixed with a strong dose of prudence will yeald the best results.

[Blue Iroc R/T]

Mark, I'm not trying to steal your thead, but I am also interested in prepping my son's 93 Daytona 2.5 Turbo for the dyno. I am wondering what I need to change or add to our set-up for a TU 3 bar Cal set-up. Here is the specs on Mark's Daytona:
This 93 Daytona engine management is from a 92 Daytona SBEC II for a 2.5L Automatic with full wiring harness conversion. The block is a 93 2.5L N/A Common Block Bored .040" Over, (with modification for Turbo Oil Return Line) with hinged gate baffle windage tray in the Oil Pan and enlarged Oil Pick-Up Opening. JE Pistons with Thermal Coated Tops and Molly Coated Skirts. Full Size G Body N/A Radiator for Auto Trans. Spearco Front Mounted Intercooler with 2" ID Spa Flex Hose (High Temp./High Pressure) for I/C lines. Ported/Polished head. Ported/Polished Exhaust Manifold. Gasket Ported TII, 2 Piece Intake (Cherry Red Powder Coated). One piece Gasket Valve Cover (Cherry Red Powder Coated). FWD Performance Vacuum Distributor Manifold. Forward Motion Enforcer 3 Cam. TII (33Lb./hr) Injectors. Walbro 255 Fuel Pump. The Turbo is a T04E 50 Trim, T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo with 60 A/R Inlet Housing, Stage II Turbine wheel upgrade, 63 A/R Stage II Turbine Housing. Turbo XS Bov (recently upgraded from type "H" to "RFL"). Turbo XS Boost Controller. T-Trac Limited Slip Differential. Race Modified A413 Auto Trans. 3" Downpipe back Exhaust. Dynomax Ultra-Flow Muffler (no Cat). Autometer Ultralite A/F Gauge. Autometer Ultralite 30/30 Boost Gauge. Autometer Ultralite Fuel Pressure Gauge (Under Hood).

Plan to add the following prior to the Medina, Oh TU Dyno Day:
+40's, 3 Bar Map, Devilsown Alky Injection.

What we don't have and wonder if it is needed prior to Dyno:
Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator (we have one, just don't know if it needs to be installed for the TU Cal)
Adj. Cam Gear
EGT Gauge

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. I have emailed Paul twice with these or similiar questions, but haven't received any answers.

[cordes]

Mark, I'm not trying to steal your thead, but I am also interested in prepping my son's 93 Daytona 2.5 Turbo for the dyno. I am wondering what I need to change or add to our set-up for a TU 3 bar Cal set-up. Here is the specs on Mark's Daytona:
This 93 Daytona engine management is from a 92 Daytona SBEC II for a 2.5L Automatic with full wiring harness conversion. The block is a 93 2.5L N/A Common Block Bored .040" Over, (with modification for Turbo Oil Return Line) with hinged gate baffle windage tray in the Oil Pan and enlarged Oil Pick-Up Opening. JE Pistons with Thermal Coated Tops and Molly Coated Skirts. Full Size G Body N/A Radiator for Auto Trans. Spearco Front Mounted Intercooler with 2" ID Spa Flex Hose (High Temp./High Pressure) for I/C lines. Ported/Polished head. Ported/Polished Exhaust Manifold. Gasket Ported TII, 2 Piece Intake (Cherry Red Powder Coated). One piece Gasket Valve Cover (Cherry Red Powder Coated). FWD Performance Vacuum Distributor Manifold. Forward Motion Enforcer 3 Cam. TII (33Lb./hr) Injectors. Walbro 255 Fuel Pump. The Turbo is a T04E 50 Trim, T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo with 60 A/R Inlet Housing, Stage II Turbine wheel upgrade, 63 A/R Stage II Turbine Housing. Turbo XS Bov (recently upgraded from type "H" to "RFL"). Turbo XS Boost Controller. T-Trac Limited Slip Differential. Race Modified A413 Auto Trans. 3" Downpipe back Exhaust. Dynomax Ultra-Flow Muffler (no Cat). Autometer Ultralite A/F Gauge. Autometer Ultralite 30/30 Boost Gauge. Autometer Ultralite Fuel Pressure Gauge (Under Hood).

Plan to add the following prior to the Medina, Oh TU Dyno Day:
+40's, 3 Bar Map, Devilsown Alky Injection.

What we don't have and wonder if it is needed prior to Dyno:
Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator (we have one, just don't know if it needs to be installed for the TU Cal)
Adj. Cam Gear
EGT Gauge

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. I have emailed Paul twice with these or similiar questions, but haven't received any answers.

Personally, if I had the money, I would run an AFPR. Paul should be able to give you a cal that would make it unnecessary, but it probably would not be a bad idea. Especially if you ever plan on (or have to) make changes to your setup that would necesitate FP changes before he can get you a new cal.

I always reccomend an EGT gauge. I have an EGT gauge in my shadow, but no AF gauge, althogh that is not what I usually reccomend.

I would run an adjustable gear, especially with an auto, as it will help to have as low of a boost threshold as possible.

If you are going to the dyno day, I would just set everything straight up, and see what Paul reccomends. He has dialed in more TD setups than the vast majority of us ever will.

[GLHSKEN]

Great advice all around...

[John B]

I like to dial in the cam at low (10-12psi) boost to lessen the chance of problems. The right spot for 10 psi is also the right spot for 30 psi.

[John B]

BTW, tune the cam by trap speeds, not ET.

[show-off]

FOund out that my adj cam gear was not tightened down. It had rolled all the way forward. I set it back to straight up and she is sooooo much better!

[cordes]

FOund out that my adj cam gear was not tightened down. It had rolled all the way forward. I set it back to straight up and she is sooooo much better!


Yeah, I bet that makes all the difference. LOL.

[t3rse]

I set my cam at 0. I made some runs with it 1 ad/ret. ret felt better so I took it another degree. Kept doing this until my egts were up to around 1350 at 20psi.

The easiest way is to buy a g meter, they don't give accurate 1/4 times and such, but accellerometers these days are pretty good, and you can see the difference between a half degree.

Fuel is the other consideration. If you have an SDS or other standalone, like me, you can adjust fuel based on rpm and then independently based on boost. The best way to do this is with a wideband meter. If you don't have one, like me, you can do it with a narrow band. At min boost (6-8 psi) do WOT runs and slowly lean it until it goes off of the richest setting. Take the fuel back up a notch (boost setting in SDS or fuel pressure on afpr). Fuel consumption will be more or less linear, so with the SDS you can just calculate your slope and figure it out from there. To set the rpm need, put a filter on the tb and drive it like that doing the same thing, or you could pin the WG.