85 T1 set-up, only better?

[Wes85L]

Well I've thought long and hard about what to do engine wise for my Shelby Charger. I've decided against a 16v swap (way too much money), and T2 because I want the stock look but with better performance, and durability than originally and don't want it to get complicated. I already have a '90 common block sitting in the garage. I had intended to use it for a t2 build but now I'm thinking more along the line of a t1 but with some stronger parts, better turbo maybe, tranny, etc.

I know it would be limited power-wise or restricted keeping it non-intercooled and I know the suck-through set-up isn't all that great. I realize also that some might think it is foolish to use a common block, stronger pistons, etc on such a setup. I want to keep the electronics rather stock, well as far as there being a power module and logic module but certainly I'd be interested in a custom calibration. Maybe an update to 3 or 4 wire 02, later distributor, etc.

As my car sits now it has over 150k miles so just refreshing the engine would be an increase in power but I would add stuff to make it better than original.

Please tell me what ya'll think? Suggestions? Yay or nay? :)

[johnl]

While I've had a T1 since 1985, I was doing other things when others were figuring out these cars.

I guess it was +20s with more boost and then still more boost with +40s and/or 5th injectors and alky.

[cordes]

Without alcohol, I really don't see the point since you would not be able to push the new parts hard enough while keeping it reliable.

[Vigo]

best way to bypass shitty induction system while making use of stronger bottom end is direct port nitrous.

[crazy1eye]

Well I've thought long and hard about what to do engine wise for my Shelby Charger. I've decided against a 16v swap (way too much money), and T2 because I want the stock look but with better performance, and durability than originally and don't want it to get complicated. I already have a '90 common block sitting in the garage. I had intended to use it for a t2 build but now I'm thinking more along the line of a t1 but with some stronger parts, better turbo maybe, tranny, etc.

I know it would be limited power-wise or restricted keeping it non-intercooled and I know the suck-through set-up isn't all that great. I realize also that some might think it is foolish to use a common block, stronger pistons, etc on such a setup. I want to keep the electronics rather stock, well as far as there being a power module and logic module but certainly I'd be interested in a custom calibration. Maybe an update to 3 or 4 wire 02, later distributor, etc.

As my car sits now it has over 150k miles so just refreshing the engine would be an increase in power but I would add stuff to make it better than original.

Please tell me what ya'll think? Suggestions? Yay or nay? :)

Well, the '85 turbo engine does have bigger/stronger rods than the '86+ T1 engines so I'd stick with that if you don't plan on going BIG. Just freshen it up, new rings & bearings, maybe go .020"(.5mm) over with new pistons. If you don't want to intercool it, don't bother upgrading the turbo, unless your going to use methanol/alcohol injection to cool the charge air down. I guess you could upgrade the throttle body to a 46mm pull through, go with a '87 electronics(LM) with a 4 wire O2 & the later distributor, swap in an A555 trans with the cable shifter, 2.5" exhaust with a straight through muffler, '88 tbi cam with roller rockers...

[Wes85L]

Ok, well the car would not be driven hard that much. I mean I wouldn't abuse it but I would take it to the track a little and play around on the street. So, if I installed an alky injection kit and used it only when driving the car hard would the setup have good power and retain reliability. I wonder who has done something like this with these early t1 engines. I can use the '90 block with an '85 right? And my plan was to use an a523 or a568 tranny. They're just so much better shifting. I can't stand the shifter in the charger now and the a520 in my Shadow was only decent, and the pull-up reverse ring just irritated me.

[daytonaturbo87]

Funny, I liked the trans in my old 84 shelby charger non-turbo. Shifter smooth even for the high mileage pile of rust it was when I got it. Anyway, stick with the engine you have. Your 85 will have strong rods in it, pretty much they're T2 rods with pressed pins instead of floating, and slightly weaker rod caps, still good for a nice amount of HP. Plus you've got the matching G head. All in all I'd use that instead of the common block. Like said, just do new rings and bearings and run it. No real point in building another engine if you're not doing much with it. I'm not as familiar with the 85 electronics, but I know on the 87 electronics, all I had to do was change the tps and ais connectors at the throttle body and run two new wires from the throttle body to the logic module, and bam that's T2 electronics. Pop in a 87 T2 LM and a T2 intake/throttle body and I was good to go. I know the 84 electronics were kinda funky but I thought the rest were not that different from 85-87 except for the whole map sensor on the LM thing and the distributor update, both small potatoes in my book.

But if you are dead set on running the poorer flowing log intake, you could try and find one of the direct connection intercooled log setups. They pop up from time-to-time. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's a log intake that's redesigned to hold an intercooler right over top of it, lining up with the vent in the top of your hood. They used a recalibrated computer as well. I'd definately look for one of those if you wanted a more stockish setup. They're still a draw through setup, and the intake looks almost the same, just necking up to an IC instead of down to the turbo.

Since the T2 conversion is cheap and so easy to do I just went with that but the intercooled log setups are pretty cool. Not sure if it's worth getting a different turbo even with the IC'd log, cause it's still a log even tho a fancy one.

[Wes85L]

Well, the reason I wanted to use the common block is because it has been sitting in my garage for some time oiled up ready to be built. I paid to have it shipped to me.. It's in very good condition and I realize it would be put to bettter use on a stronger setup but I want to put it to use somehow.

[SL#189]

Well, the reason I wanted to use the common block is because it has been sitting in my garage for some time oiled up ready to be built. I paid to have it shipped to me.. It's in very good condition and I realize it would be put to bettter use on a stronger setup but I want to put it to use somehow.

Depending on how ambitious you are, use the CB in your car while you're (re)building the stock block. That way you have a running vehicle while it's "real" engine is getting freshened up.

[daytonaturbo87]

Depending on how ambitious you are, use the CB in your car while you're (re)building the stock block. That way you have a running vehicle while it's "real" engine is getting freshened up.

If he cares about keeping the original engine in it, which most td'ers don't.

[gvare001]

I love the 523 in my charger, shift's are really smooth. I just sold my direct connection IC kit, I practically gave it away, nobody wanted it anymore. Anyhow, good luck with your plans.

[turbovanman²]

I would use the CB, that way you can drive your car now and do up the engine. I wouldn't bother with a bigger turbo, injectors. Just keep it stock, clean up the head a bit, do the exhaust stuff, and leave it. If you do run alky, run an MBC and run it up to boost cutout if you can.

[contraption22]

I really enjoyed playing with my T1 setup way back in the day. I always wanted to see what the real potential of that setup was.

If I had time, money, and space I would really enjoy taking the old T1 setup to it's limits. port everything, upgrade the turbo, bigger throttle body, and alky injection.

[Wes85L]

Mike, would you go i/c-less? I want to keep it stock looking. Usually I don't care, like with the Shadow I just did whatever. I'm trying to build it up strong and powerful but stealthy this time. I'm sure there are many threads on alky injection but are there any block machining tips or recommendations you might have or do you not really have to build the engine around the alky like people do for nitrous (all forged, etc.)? Thanks

[contraption22]

You don't have to build the engine any differently with the alcohol injection. The alky would simply take the place of an intercooler. It's not a power adder in itself like N20 is. It is simply a different way of intercooling.

[Wes85L]

What would be the wisest way to go about building the engine; gathering parts as I find good deals and at some point getting the block freshened or is it best to get the block cleaned/checked first, before any parts are bought, then decide what to use parts-wise from that point on? I realize if I bought standard size pistons and then the block was taken to a machine shop and they tell me the walls are rusted and it needs to be bored it's gonna be a problem. But as far as I can tell the block is in great shape.

[cordes]

What would be the wisest way to go about building the engine; gathering parts as I find good deals and at some point getting the block freshened or is it best to get the block cleaned/checked first, before any parts are bought, then decide what to use parts-wise from that point on? I realize if I bought standard size pistons and then the block was taken to a machine shop and they tell me the walls are rusted and it needs to be bored it's gonna be a problem. But as far as I can tell the block is in great shape.

Since you have a decent block, I would just get a decent crank and some rods, then get pistons to machined block and the machine shop should be able to take care of the rest.

[DevoBuzz]

I'm almost in the same boat. Have an 85 SC that needs a rebuild. Here are my plans using parts I have laying around from my 89 Lancer.

89 Common block
2.2 CB crank
85 rods w/ new pistons (or use the old pistons if possible)
GLHS Stage 2 logic module using 86+ distributor (minimal wiring changes)
Two Piece intake w/ +20's
T2 turbo
Small NPR intercooler (I have the old Spearco side mount on now)
89 swirl port head
2.5 inch exhaust

Now I'm not sure what to do with the tranny. The A525 only has 42K on it and works fine. Maybe I'll just put the tranny girdle I have on it and run it until it goes. I have a A520 sitting in the garage too.

Ralph

[daytonaturbo87]

Tear down the block now and figure out if you'll be able to use standard-bore pistons or if you'll need an overbore and if so how much. You can get everything else first, but wait to buy pistons until you have taken a look at the block. And hold off on bearings as well until you find out if you need to have your crank worked over.

I talked to one guy who'd built a charger for 210whp back in the 80's-early 90's, he said he tore thru 2 525's with the 3.5 gearset and he said the last one he threw in had the 3.05 and that one held up until he junked the car.

[Wes85L]

Well, not really. That is a T2 setup you mention above. I'm looking into keeping the original suck-through system but with a little more power than stock. I was thinking about this more at work today and I really can't decide what to do. The T2 setup is certainly tempting but I want to have a stealthy/sleeper/stock look under the hood.

I was thinking of a setup like this that would be very durable, reliable, and fun and perform better than stock. Some of these parts I already (have):

-1990 common block non-crossdrilled (have)
-Arp head studs (have)
-1985 T1 rods; want to get them knife edged; can this be done on rods (have)
-commonblock cast crankshaft also knife edged
-windage tray oil pan with crank scrapers (deep sump worth it?)
-cast mahle pistons
-melling oil pump (high volume?)
-lightly ported head, backcut valves, cam?
-ported exhaust manifold
-ported housing t1 turbo or bigger wheel, 2.5" sv, 2.5 exhaust back, 3"?
-86 or later dist.
-a523/568 tranny
-alky injection kit

Any feedback you can give me is appreciated!

[DevoBuzz]

You can do all that. Couple of additional things to think of:

What head (782 Swirl or 287 bathtub) are you going to run?
How will you control boost?
What injectors?

[DevoBuzz]

Tear down the block now and figure out if you'll be able to use standard-bore pistons or if you'll need an overbore and if so how much. You can get everything else first, but wait to buy pistons until you have taken a look at the block. And hold off on bearings as well until you find out if you need to have your crank worked over.

Yes good advice. Thanks.

Ralph

[capev86]

the only way to get better performance and keep the stock look is to use later factory pieces like T2 rad/ic setup and plumbing with a blow through intake, etc.

[Wes85L]

I'm now fairly certain I won't go T2.

Aside from what others have said about it, I was thinking if I took the log intake to a machine shop, and told them I wanted a custom sheetmetal intake with the same or slightly different configuration would it be worth the money/time spent; would I have a better performing engine afterwards?

And, I've just bought a NOS G Head on ebay. Now to decide what slider cam to use if not stock.

[cordes]

I'm now fairly certain I won't go T2.

Aside from what others have said about it, I was thinking if I took the log intake to a machine shop, and told them I wanted a custom sheetmetal intake with the same or slightly different configuration would it be worth the money/time spent; would I have a better performing engine afterwards?

And, I've just bought a NOS G Head on ebay. Now to decide what slider cam to use if not stock.

I can see going with a turbo slider, why would you go with an aftermarket slider? They wear just too fast for me. Also, you would need some serious chemical intercooling to get anything out of a custom intake. That is assuming that you have some good head work done. At that point not going to TII electronics and a blow through setup seems quite queer indeed. unless you are trying to be different, or prove some sort of point, then I don't get the point.

[turbovanman²]

I'm now fairly certain I won't go T2.

Aside from what others have said about it, I was thinking if I took the log intake to a machine shop, and told them I wanted a custom sheetmetal intake with the same or slightly different configuration would it be worth the money/time spent; would I have a better performing engine afterwards?

And, I've just bought a NOS G Head on ebay. Now to decide what slider cam to use if not stock.

You seem to be making alot of work for yourself. The one piece or 2 piece intake is all you need and there one piece's can be had for chump change. Your better off just converting over, you'll be so much happier with the way it runs.

I prefer rollers, there quiet and don't wear out.

[Wes85L]

I appreciate everyone's input so far. Keep it coming.