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View Full Version : Ok, lets get this party started-how do you do your own cals from scratch?



turbovanmanČ
01-27-2007, 04:54 PM
WHAT do I need to start doing my own.

1)What is the cheapest and easiest way to burn your own cals?

2)Equipment needed please list. I guess its related to line 1?

3) I am not bad with programming but how hard is it to learn to adjust the code?

Any tips, websites etc would be great. I am so tired of my van running like shitt.

JuXsA
01-27-2007, 05:00 PM
have you checked out Dcal or the Dcal group. the program is pretty easy to use. You would just need to get an idea of what you wanted to do.

turbovanmanČ
01-27-2007, 05:03 PM
Nope, thats why I am posting this. I have never really paid attention but I am getting fed up. :mad:

Well, just got off the phone with Cindy, so based on what we talked about, I might just get one of her cals and try my own later on but still, the info to do my own would be cool.

ShelGame
01-27-2007, 05:36 PM
Get D-Cal and then ask me to send you the table file for your cal :). You should also get my '89 2.5 T1 flowcharts off of D-Cal. They'll help you understand how each table works.

You can get a burner on eBay for ~$40us. Search for "Willem Programmer".

Or, get in touch with XratiRacer (Jason Richardson). He has a seriously sweet flash module for the SMEC's so you can re-program it in car with a laptop. I think he'll even sell it installed into a SMEC for you for ~$100us. No changing chips. You'll also need a serial line-level converter that he also sells (and available elsewhere for ~$20us)

ShelbyMotorsports
01-27-2007, 07:51 PM
have you checked out Dcal or the Dcal group.

Good luck getting in. Seems Derek requires an essay on why you want to join and if your essay doesn't meet his expectations theres no secret knock coming your way.

Simon how about seeing if tm.com would provide the space for modifying & burning our own cals? Somebody really needs to take the lead in providing a one stop place for TD knowledge.

Directconnection
01-27-2007, 07:57 PM
Or, get in touch with XratiRacer (Jason Richardson). He has a seriously sweet flash module for the SMEC's so you can re-program it in car with a laptop. I think he'll even sell it installed into a SMEC for you for ~$100us. No changing chips. You'll also need a serial line-level converter that he also sells (and available elsewhere for ~$20us)

What about SBEC?

The dcal and chem is extremely hard to jump into when you have absolutely no clue where to start. What the tables represent, what happens when modifying them, the software part... not to mention the actual tuning aspect of the car in itself.

I have an sbec 2.5 T-II. I would love to do my own tweaking on the dyno once it's running.. but the discussions are so far ahead of the 100% un- knowing.

GLHNSLHT2
01-27-2007, 08:53 PM
XrattiRacer on TD.com can set you up simon with his flashable smec setup and serial line. I've been running his stuff for years as he's local to me. Since you have a smec it's the only way to go. Rob has a tbl file for you. You load the cal into Dcal and adjust the tables you want to modify slowly. Then just click the "flash" button. Flip a toggle that supplies 12v to the smec to put it in bootstrap mode, turn the key to on and hit ok. A minute later you have your new cal into the smec and away you go.

I have Derek's email I can post here if you need it. I got onto dcal. I'm sure anyone can. CHEM2 is coming out soon at www.moparchem.com as well and looks nice. Although I like the factory style cals that Dcal has better. I find them far simpler to play with. The Chem codes are a lot to process all at once and I'm having ok luck with the dcal stuff so far.

The SBEC stuff isn't so documented but Shel-games 2.5 T1 cal is nice and I've burned one onto a chipped sbec to run a buddies intercooled 2.5. Modified a bit of course. It's been in the shop with a nuked piston and the only thing it's done on the cal is idle but it does run. Should be out soon and then we can start tuning it a little closer.

I'll be smec'ing my GLH and running a 16v Maserati with some serious mods and a big turbo on it within a year or two hopefully. I'll probably use robs cal and the stock 16v masi bin to make up something that works.

A wideband a/f is a great thing to have along with a scanner so you can see how much timing is being taken out if you have any knock. I'd like to get a romulator just so I can see exactly what address's are being hit while the car is running in certain conditions.

I went through 3 guys that told me they could burn me a chip for this car. Started out with Rob Maxon who made the original LM for this car when my buddy owned it. I thought I was pretty close with him and had exchanged and tried different chips he wanted me to try. Well he burned me as well after he swore he wouldn't. Then 2 other guys. I finally got tired of it and had XrattiRacer doing this stuff to his Ford 2.3 so I thought it was time to give it a try. I will never go back. The car started on the 1st turn of the key and passed emmisions with no cat and +40 injectors and a 2.5 in my 87 Z. If you have patience (Simon heh) this is a great way to go. If you're not careful you could easily blow a motor though.

turbovanmanČ
01-27-2007, 10:00 PM
Good luck getting in. Seems Derek requires an essay on why you want to join and if your essay doesn't meet his expectations theres no secret knock coming your way.

Simon how about seeing if tm.com would provide the space for modifying & burning our own cals? Somebody really needs to take the lead in providing a one stop place for TD knowledge.

I will bring it up.

Thanks guys, I will do that. For now, I am trying one of Cindy's cals, she is giving me a good deal, I really don't have the time to play right now but in the winter coming up, would be nice.

cordes
01-27-2007, 10:42 PM
It is really not that hard to get into. If you go to moparchem.com and reade the articles you should be all set. It really only takes a basic knowledge of how the chryco ECU works, and you are all set.

You can check out my custom cal how to on my site to see what all would be involved in making your own cal by burning chips. It would be a little different since you have an SMEC, but not by much.

I too would recommend getting the setup to flash the cals in your car via laptop since it is so much easier.

turbovanmanČ
01-28-2007, 04:11 AM
Agreed, the laptop seems like a great idea. Any input on what Laptop to get? I'll surf Ebay and get one at the right price, :eyebrows:

Bubba
01-28-2007, 10:32 AM
Get D-Cal and then ask me to send you the table file for your cal :). You should also get my '89 2.5 T1 flowcharts off of D-Cal. They'll help you understand how each table works.

You can get a burner on eBay for ~$40us. Search for "Willem Programmer".

Or, get in touch with XratiRacer (Jason Richardson). He has a seriously sweet flash module for the SMEC's so you can re-program it in car with a laptop. I think he'll even sell it installed into a SMEC for you for ~$100us. No changing chips. You'll also need a serial line-level converter that he also sells (and available elsewhere for ~$20us)

Anyone working on this option for the SBECs?

ShelGame
01-28-2007, 11:52 AM
Anyone working on this option for the SBECs?

Flashing? Not yet. It's harder because the SBEC uses a special EPROM. It has an address latch built in. It's still possible to do (especially with a module like Jason sells), but nobody has done it yet...

Bubba
01-28-2007, 12:21 PM
Flashing? Not yet. It's harder because the SBEC uses a special EPROM. It has an address latch built in. It's still possible to do (especially with a module like Jason sells), but nobody has done it yet...

That would be a nice option for the SBECs, but it seems there's tons more interest in the SMEC stuff. Any programs available to look at real time data coming off a SBEC?

GLHNSLHT2
01-28-2007, 01:24 PM
Any cheap laptop running win98 or XP works Simon.

ShelGame
01-28-2007, 02:03 PM
That would be a nice option for the SBECs, but it seems there's tons more interest in the SMEC stuff. Any programs available to look at real time data coming off a SBEC?


Just my MiniDash ap...

turbovanmanČ
01-28-2007, 03:34 PM
Any cheap laptop running win98 or XP works Simon.

Awesome, thanks!

ShelbyMotorsports
01-28-2007, 07:53 PM
... I am trying one of Cindy's cals, she is giving me a good deal, I really don't have the time to play right now but in the winter coming up, would be nice.


Simon that's probably the best way. Burning your own cals is rewarding but the amount of time needed to get up to speed is rather huge and unless you can devote that time its usually not worth it.

turbovanmanČ
01-28-2007, 10:05 PM
Well I still want to get into it, I know I can do it.

BTW, surfed Ebay for laptops, I can honestly say I am lost. If someone can post some basic requirements, then I can keep looking.

Whorse
01-28-2007, 11:18 PM
If windows 98 works, you can probably get a cheap old laptop. Just save your pennies for a used dell.

ShelbyMotorsports
01-29-2007, 03:17 PM
Well I still want to get into it, I know I can do it.

BTW, surfed Ebay for laptops, I can honestly say I am lost. If someone can post some basic requirements, then I can keep looking.

Be very careful on ebay with laptops. More fraud/scams than legit.

cordes
01-29-2007, 11:48 PM
Simon that's probably the best way. Burning your own cals is rewarding but the amount of time needed to get up to speed is rather huge and unless you can devote that time its usually not worth it.

I would disagree. I could see that being the case with someone that was new to TMs and did not know how the ECU functions, but I am forced to believe that Simon has a pretty reasonable grasp of how the engine is controlled, and moreover he is changing things rather frequently.

I may have little time to work on my cal knowledge, but it sure beats waiting on a recal in the mail. Especially since Simon lives in Canada the process would be even longer. Heck, I think the horror stories I have heard about people waiting on recals from any vendor I have seen thus far is enough to make me take the plunge and learn how to do it myself.

GLHNSLHT2
01-30-2007, 08:32 PM
+1 cordes.

Aries_Turbo
02-02-2007, 09:19 AM
Equipment... you dont have to have a laptop if you do the tuning near your house. you can just use a desktop pc but the laptop is a little easier.

if you go laptop, you need a laptop with a Parallel printer port and a USB port. I have an old acer travelmate 514T with a celeron 466 and I added ram to bring it to its max, 256MB. i run win 98 on it.

youll really need a wideband to tune this and a scanner or minidash to see if/when you have knock.

go to www.mcumall.com and buy the Enhanced Willem Universal EPROM Programmer the PRG-001. its on backorder right now so you could buy the PRG-002... it supports the chips you need as well. I have the PRG-001.

Next you need chips. I use the SST 27SF512. they are cheap and reusable. http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=SST27SF512-70-3C-PGEvirtualkey51530000virtualkey804-27SF5127CPGE
Simon, you can use this chip as well.

then you need a copy of ChEM and/or D-Cal. I use D-cal cause its prettier and because it allows you to edit the tables with the keyboard arrows. ChEM 2 is going to be out sometime too and it looks like its going to be awesome!

then head over to both the yahoo group D-cal and www.moparchem.com and sign up so that you can ask questions.

one thing... on cordes's site, it says to burn the eeprom to the offset of C000. dont do this. your offset with the SMEC is 8000. double check this with other SMEC cal guys first though as I havent burned an SMEC cal but its the offset rob writes in the table file of his cals. the settings that cordes has on his site other than the 89 offset are correct for the SST 27SF512 chips.

after getting the hardware, you are ready to begin tinkering with the software. you'll want to pop the chips out and read them (follow the burners instructions) to your pc and load them into D-cal or ChEM. youll also have to find the correct table file for them and make the filename the same as the rom name.

for you simon, you can just ask rob to email you a copy of the cals that he made for you and for the table files. make sure both the table file and the rom .bin file are in the same directory/folder.

open D-cal, load the rom and scroll through the tables and constants and see if they all look reasonable. youll know if they dont... they will look insane with points and lines filling the screen. if this happens, then there is something wrong with the table file that defines the rom.

youll need some way of datalogging what is going on with the van. i use my tech edge wideband. I also have the blueberry code so that i can datalog the check engine blinks (it blinks when there is knock) by hooking the output of the cel wire up to the datalogging inputs on the wideband. I can datalog three 0-5V sources and three EGT probes, RPM and the wideband signal. I have the 2A0 from www.wbo2.com. I datalog map volts, tps volts, the cel blink, afr, and rpm. I havent hooked any thermocouples to it yet.

without a wideband, you CANNOT do this correctly. a dawes devices gauge WONT cut it. for part throttle, in vaccum tuning, you can datalog the autocal variables and make changes for that but that doesnt work in boost. we'll save autocal stuff for another day... plus I dont know if you can view them with ChEM anyway (it datalogs and displays live ram but i dont know if it is setup for 89 yet)

so that said, its time to tune. your vehicle must be in proper working order or this is a waste of time. turn the boost down as far as it will go even to the point of loosening the tension on the wastegate arm. id drop to 3psi or less if possible. set the grainger to just below the wastegate tension so the boost response is crisp and quick to rise.

warm up the vehicle to proper operating temp and head out to a back road. lock the vehicle into a taller gear (3rd for a stick, 2nd for an auto if you have a rmvb... if not, i dont know what to do, maybe first gear but it wont be ideal.) slowly mash the gas at a low rpm (1500) and hold it out till redline while datalogging. do a few of these.

look at the data (afr.... i tune to 11.5-11.8) and the knock values that you datalogged, either with a scanner, minidash or if you were logging the cel blink with blueberry/ladybug.

for fuel, make the initial low boost adjustments of the fuel with the pumping efficiency table and do another run at the same boost to see if it evened out.

for timing, if you had knock, look at AdvanceFromMapWarmFull. this is the full throttle timing table based on boost. find the psi point on the curve (or the closest one to it and back it off a little (.5-1.0 deg). do another run and see if the knock goes away.

now its time to turn up the boost a little. raise it 1-2 psi. dont say to yourself, "man its running good now, im going for 30psi!" or ill show up at your house and punch you in the stomach! ;) heheh just kidding.

once you raise the boost, do some more datalogs. with the fuel, you shouldnt have to mess with the pumping efficiency table much. youll be focusing on FuelFullThrottle. do a run, datalog, and watch the afr's as the boost rises. once stabilized at the max boost for that setting, the afr's should be fairly flat to redline. if the overall curve is rich or lean, adjust the FuelFullThrottle table by sliding the closest map point up and down. if there is just a little lean or rich blip while the boost is steady, adjust the pumping efficiency table again. dont make all your changes in the pumping efficiency table as this could make your low boost rich and your high boost lean or stuff like that.

timing is the same way. run the car, datalog knock and pull back the timing if there is knock.

that really should be about it if the car starts, idles and warms up well.

if anyone has any different info than that which ive shared, please post it. :)

Brian

Bubba
02-02-2007, 09:29 AM
Wow Brian, nice write-up. I just got into messing with this stuff myself. I haven't modified any cals yet, but that's mainly because my car's still stored up for the winter, so I have no way to test anything. My set-up will be changing drastically with the addition of a big valve g-head, so that's what I'm gearing up for.

ShelGame
02-02-2007, 10:48 AM
one thing... on cordes's site, it says to burn the eeprom to the offset of C000. dont do this. your offset with the SMEC is 8000. double check this with other SMEC cal guys first though as I havent burned an SMEC cal but its the offset rob writes in the table file of his cals. the settings that cordes has on his site other than the 89 offset are correct for the SST 27SF512 chips.



Just a correction - the offset refers to where you put the binary on the chip. Not where the binary resides in the memory map. The C000 or 8000 you see in the table file is simply the first address of the EEPROM relative to the memory map.

I know it can be confusing. The micro in our ECU's can access up to 64k of memory total. On a SMEC, the EEPROM is mapped to the upper 32k. The most important thing is that the last memory address of the binary must always match the last memory address. So, the first memory address of the binary (when looking at a dis-assembly, for example) will be 8000 or C000 (for 32k or 16k binaries).

The offset, if needed, actually depends on the binary size relative to chip size. Again, you always want the last byte of the binary to line up with the last byte of memory. So, if you have a 16k bin on a 32k chip (LM bins, T2 SMEC bins), the offset for the burner needs to be 4000. If you are burning a 32k binary to a 32k chip (T1 SMEC bins, SBEC bins), there's no offset. If you are burning a 32k bin to a 64k chip (like the 27SF512), then you'd need the 8000 offset. If you burn a 16k bin to a 64k chip, you'd need an offset of C000.

Aries_Turbo
02-02-2007, 01:31 PM
thanks for the explanation... i didnt know exactly why... i just knew what I needed to have the burner setting at. :)

Brian

tryingbe
02-02-2007, 03:23 PM
Good luck getting in. Seems Derek requires an essay on why you want to join and if your essay doesn't meet his expectations theres no secret knock coming your way.


Not really. Just write WHY you want to join the group.

Aries_Turbo
02-02-2007, 03:58 PM
yeah i got in no problem.

Brian

GLHNSLHT2
02-03-2007, 03:08 AM
if you have a SMEC skip the burner frustration, contact XrattiRacer over on TD.com and get his flashable setup with the interface cable. Then you just swap smecs, add a wire to a certain pin on the smec that can supply 12v on a switch, plug in your interface cable to the diagnostic port and your laptop, then just hit "Flash" in dcal and away you go :) No need to be pulling chips or your smec all the time. Mines sealed in a cold airbox that makes it a total pain to do.

Aries_Turbo
02-03-2007, 06:30 PM
yeah his setup is pretty sweet for the SMEC. he has a thread over on www.moparchem.com.

it isnt too bad with the smec's if you have a small ribbon cable extended out of the SMEC into a sealed box with a socket/chip in there.

but the flash setup is much nicer though.

Brian

altered7151
02-05-2007, 02:48 AM
Okay, I have a request. I feel I have a really good grasp of the functioning of the mopar ecu, as far as the input and outputs of the system. Or basically how the engine is controlled. My problem is when I open a file with D-Cal, its a bit overwhelming as to what tables need to be changed. I can go through and get a pretty good idea of what table can be tweaked, but I'm just not sure.

So here it is: I think it would be extremely helpful to us that are starting off with tuning our own cals if someone in the know could take a base cal, say the ladybug base cal, and tune it to a theoretical motor. If the "tuned" cal could then be posted the differences could then be compared. Also if a brief explanation could be thrown out there of what was changed and why, it would go a long ways to helping people like me get on their way. Something along these lines could make for an invaluable addition to the FAQ section also.

This is an awesome automotive community with a wealth of intelligent people, but it seems that up until about the last year or so that the ecu tuning was only handled by a very small handful of people. But I've noticed lately that is really starting to change, I think you're going to see the average performance of our cars skyrocket once we can get everyone onboard with ecu tuning, much like people in the LT-1 and LS-1 communities.

turboaddict
02-05-2007, 03:33 AM
+1 tyler thats what ive been worried about as well. show me what your changing and why then i know what exactly i have to do to make it work.

cordes
02-05-2007, 09:21 PM
I think the best way to get started is to go over to chem and read the five tacked articles in the getting started section. I think that they guide you through what is needed for a baseline tune for any map sensor and injector combination. I would tune with chem just like the old fashioned way, one PSI at a time. Just leave the timing etc. alone for starters and adjust the fuel based on what you see from your (hopefully) WBO2, and EGT gauge. if it leans out or is too rich under WOT conditions take a little fuel out where the problem was. Same thing for part throttle etc. You can play around with other functions like the fan control as you see fit.

Overall there should be enough info on moparchem.com to get you rocking, just start reading and it will come together for you.

altered7151
02-06-2007, 06:52 PM
Anyone heard from XrattiRacer lately? I sent him a couple PM's over on TD.com, and replied to his post about the SMEC flash setup on moparchem, but haven't heard back from him yet. I think I'm ready to take on doing my own cal and his setup definitely seems like the way to go!

ShelGame
02-06-2007, 08:36 PM
He pops up every couple of days or so I think...

GLHNSLHT2
02-06-2007, 08:47 PM
I talked to him last night. He works till around 6pm or so but will usually respond to emails on the Dcal list during the day. After that he can be found on IRC EFnet #shelby as Devnull or some ititeration of that usually.

Aries_Turbo
02-06-2007, 08:48 PM
tyler, did you read my (frigging long) post above? that describes the basics of what you need to change on a cal when tuning for the small differences in your combo. most of the factory stuff can stay unless you are running a 2.2 car and have a 2.5L ecu or vise versa.

timing:

AdvanceFromMapWarmFull
AdvanceFromMapWarmPart
AdvanceFromRpms

fuel:

FuelFullThrottle
FuelPartThrottle
PumpingEfficiency
FuelNoThrottle (though I dont know exactly when to change this one.... prolly just when the throttle is closed and you are decelerating or at idle...)

these may not be the exact name in the cal that you start with, they should be pretty close and pretty obvious once you start looking.

for those with 87 electronics, older 87 table files that geoff made for stock electronics, have the full and part throttle tables reversed by name.... compare to his blueberry calibration to make sure you are changing the right one.

minus one table that you have to change to match a 87 T2 cal (FuelBatteryOffset) I have a pretty good running baseline 2.5L cal for 87 electronics. I need to get some hard runs on the car with it come spring (the car is buried under 2ft of snow) and then i'll be able to dial it in.

Brian

altered7151
02-06-2007, 10:02 PM
Brian, yeah I went back and re-read your post and things made alot more sense. Its a little overwhelming to open up one of those files and see 40 different tables in there, and know that screwing up just one is like pulling the pin on a grenade. I've been reading as much as I can through this forum and moparchem and I feel I have pretty good handle on what needs to be done to tune the cals. I have all the tools ready, TechEdge 2A1 ( I love that thing!) dedicated laptop, and I should be getting the cable finished up to run Rob's minidash this week. I'm hoping to get in touch with Xrattiracer soon and get his setup for my SMEC, then its off to tune. Just like anything else I think that if you approach this with some caution and go slow, I shouldn't have any problems. My theories always been that everyone who is an expert at something, started off not knowing anything about it.

turbovanmanČ
02-06-2007, 10:09 PM
Great Info, thanks Bryan. I have alot of work ahead of me, :( :thumb:

altered7151
02-06-2007, 10:11 PM
So does that mean you'll be doing your own cals then Simon?

turbovanmanČ
02-07-2007, 05:30 AM
So does that mean you'll be doing your own cals then Simon?


I will eventually, probably after summer when I have more time and money. RIght now, money is so tight and I have so much to do, and not enough time.

That way, I can piece together the parts I need and do them with no rush.

Aries_Turbo
02-07-2007, 05:35 PM
no problem guys. Im no expert but whatever I learn i am glad to share. :)

its not too much more difficult to learn to do this than learn to tune a standalone... plus its cheaper.... much cheaper. :)

altered7151
02-09-2007, 04:36 PM
So I ordered up everything I need to make my SMEC flash capable today from Jason. Maybe I'll take lots of pics and put up a project blog on the process, all the way from installing it to tuning the cal. That way I can get feedback as I go, and maybe serves as a guide for other people like myself who dont have a whole lot of experience with it. Either way I'm super excited about it. Doing calibrations is pretty much the only aspect of my car that I cant do myself (yet). So if I can control that, I can do everything in house.

Aries_Turbo
02-09-2007, 06:45 PM
sounds like a plan. I cant wait till spring to get everything dialed in. :)

Brian

altered7151
02-09-2007, 08:19 PM
sounds like a plan. I cant wait till spring to get everything dialed in. :)

Brian

Spring? Screw that, I'll tune the damn thing in the snow if I have to :D This car has been a project for too long, time to get this thing on the the track :thumb:

Aries_Turbo
02-09-2007, 08:43 PM
not for me. my car has 60k miles on it and no rust. I plan to keep it that way. :) plus I live in NY.... salt heaven. you wouldnt believe how much salt is tossed down in the winter.

Brian

altered7151
02-09-2007, 09:37 PM
We dont have that problem here, my charger has been a daily driven car all its life, except for the 4 years where it sat next to someones garage, not a spot of rust on it. Then again the dryness and altitude here absolutely kills paint and interiors, which is probably a better tradeoff than rust.

Did you catch my post about the tech-edge datalogging with a USB sync cable?

Aries_Turbo
02-09-2007, 11:46 PM
lucky!

no i did not catch that... where is it.

Brian

altered7151
02-10-2007, 02:50 AM
Actually I got my threads mixed up, but I was asking if you saw a problem with wiring up a usb sync cable to work with my 2a1 controller. I figured as long as everthing matched up the same as the serial (TX to RX, RX to TX, and ground to ground) it should work fine right?

Aries_Turbo
02-10-2007, 01:51 PM
I dont know if you can use a usb cable from the palm to the TE.... reason being that the way serial transmits is different than usb levels. they way i remember it, usb is 0-5v pulses and serial is -V to +V pulses... say you are using 5v for the serial transmitting voltages.... low will be -5v and high will be +5v... a usb level will be 0v for low and +5v for high.

you need a serial cable for the palm or a usb to serial adapter somehow.

i think you might be able to take the TX and RX inputs directly off of the Atmega processor (before the max232 serial convertor chip) to the usb tx and rx but I dont know if even that is compatible.

Brian