View Full Version : Rant/rave: I found where the pieces belong.

01-20-2007, 04:00 AM
For the past several weeks I've been wondering just where these two concave pieces of metal came from inside the engine in the R/T. I found one in the oil pan and the other in the oil pump pickup screen. One was about the size of a dime and the other was about the size of a nickel. I had checked all the bearings and they all looked great. Very minimal wear overall; especially since they had 195k+ miles and and oil pump failure on them. Mains, rods, and the front intermediate shaft were all fantastic.

Now which bearing did I forget to check?

Think about it.....

I found out last night the small intermediate shaft bearing is shelled. Absolutely toasted. Which is suprising since the shaft looked brand new except for the chewed to hell gear.

Here I was thinking I could get the engine reassembled and be driving it next month. But of course the one bearing I don't beleive I have the equipment to replace is ruined. Now the block and everything else needs to come out and go to the machine shop. All for a $10 piece of round-shaped metal the size of my pinky finger. :(

On the plus side it wasn't assembled, so I won't have to worry about another oil pump/i-shaft failure in the near future.

Anyone know of a way to replace that bearing with the block still in the car?

01-20-2007, 06:01 AM
Didn't know you were looking for pieces of bearing, :(

I don't think its possible to do it in the car, unless you get the engine high or low enough to drive the bushing in.

01-20-2007, 09:55 AM
I think with the engine dropped a little it could be done in the car,but if you have the head off it would be alot faster to just pull it and build it on the stand then put it back it.

01-20-2007, 11:48 AM
especially since they had 195k+ miles

You sure about that . . . ? ;)

If you can find a bearing driver and want to reinstall the bearing yourself, I'll come over Monday afternoon and we'll see if we can't have the block out, bearing replaced, and block back in that night. Surely Martin or someone has one you could borrow.

01-21-2007, 04:19 AM
I recently bought a TIII shortblock on eBay with 58k miles. I was just going to use it but I suppose I better check the condition of the intermediate shaft and bearings, especially after reading about the condition of yours Ray. Are you going to reinstall another stock I-shaft? What oil pump you using?

The shaft/bearings in the TIII in my Spirit R/T looked really good when I had it apart, so I just stuck it back together and no problems so far. The only time I've seen bad I-shaft bearings was with the 2.5L that is currently installed in my GLH Turbo. The outer bearing had some chips taken out of it, but the shaft itself looked fine. At any rate, I didn't even bother to replace them and 40k miles later nothing has gone wrong yet...but that is not something I would chance with the TIII. The 2.5L in my Omni has almost 220k miles and just won't die.:confused:

01-22-2007, 12:30 AM
The shaft I'll be using is one I had sitting in a spare/junk block in my garage, an 87TII IIRC. It's absolutely perfect, I hope it'll hold up for a while.:)

Here's a pic of the larger piece of bearing material I found...


Anyone have any ideas on replacing that bearing? Access to it in the car isn't too hard. It's getting it installed straight and true the first time that I'm trying to figure out.

01-22-2007, 09:49 AM
Yep, it's an '87 TII. Came from the same car that supplied the rods for my Charger, the springs and K-member for my CS, the wheels for Kaleb's Shelby Z, and the seats and dash taking up space in my bedroom. ;)

01-22-2007, 09:53 AM
this is the tool I use to change mine...


01-22-2007, 11:25 AM
Did it look like this? All but one of the T-III blocks I've disassembled have looked like this. I now check all of them as soon as they arrive. I think it does this for two reasons. One - because the spring tension on the valves is so high, when the crank pulls on the timing belt, it put a ton of force on the inside of the bearing and two, because the oil feed for that bearing is at about 11:00 in the shell, meaning the area that sees the most force on it is as far from the oil feed as it could be (it turns clockwise). The only motor I've disassembled where this was not an issue was one that had the titanium raised retainers to reduce spring pressure.

I'm almost positive that this is the main reason why there are I shaft/oil pump failures. The bearing wears funny or comes apart, the shaft ----s a bit in the block, gear teeth on the shaft bind with the oil pump gear, teeth break.

01-22-2007, 03:16 PM
Pat- That's how the small i-shaft bearing looks, just bigger chunks missing. The outer bearing looks absolutely perfect. No unusual wear. The light grey top coating on the bearing was just beginning to wear away to the brighter, more polished aluminum/babbit layer. IIRC the wear is on the side closer to the rear of the block.

01-22-2007, 05:05 PM
I changed mine in the car about six years ago. Went right in thru the passenger wheel well.

01-22-2007, 07:59 PM
^^^^ That's what I'm hoping I can do. The shaft fit through the wheelwell with plenty of room to spare.

01-22-2007, 09:09 PM
Yikes. Defintately going to check mine out first thing! Already got the Ti retainers on the way too. If I find a problem with mine I was thinking of getting a cryo-treated shaft and oil pump gear. Or maybe a dry-film lubricant? Think it would help?

01-22-2007, 09:30 PM
Yikes. Defintately going to check mine out first thing! Already got the Ti retainers on the way too. If I find a problem with mine I was thinking of getting a cryo-treated shaft and oil pump gear. Or maybe a dry-film lubricant? Think it would help?

I think the bearing dies then lets the gears get out of whack letting them chew up.

01-22-2007, 10:43 PM
is there any source of drop in/semi-drop in valve springs for the R/T motor that dont have such ridiculous spring pressure? i mean, very few folks turn 9000rpm with a TIII


01-23-2007, 04:24 PM
I think I found a solution with stuff I have in the garage. Basically using 2 old i-shafts, cut and then welded together correctly. Once I get it made I'll be practicing bushing R&R on that spare block before I try it when it really matters.

01-25-2007, 03:52 PM
I forgot I made this....