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View Full Version : Where to go.. bit lost for block choice



Garffus
01-17-2007, 11:13 AM
Hi guys. Ive been wanting to do the Hybrid swap for a while and have got myself the first building blocks, the head - not as easy as you think over here in the UK..

My cars an 87 TII and "you all" say i need a common block, which i accepted, but i cant get hold of one over here! Shipping one over is too much cash.

Now i can get hold of an entire 2.0 or 2.4 and or.. do the conversion to the 87 block? is this feasable or not.

what do you recommend?

lack of response over at td.com!

BTW - check out my progress on the car here http://www.front-runners.net/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=99999999&g2_itemId=562 id really appreciate your feedback so give your comments please!!

TurbododgePirate
01-17-2007, 11:52 AM
Hi guys. Ive been wanting to do the Hybrid swap for a while and have got myself the first building blocks, the head - not as easy as you think over here in the UK..

My cars an 87 TII and "you all" say i need a common block, which i accepted, but i cant get hold of one over here! Shipping one over is too much cash.

Now i can get hold of an entire 2.0 or 2.4 and or.. do the conversion to the 87 block? is this feasable or not.

what do you recommend?

lack of response over at td.com!

BTW - check out my progress on the car here http://www.front-runners.net/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=99999999&g2_itemId=562 id really appreciate your feedback so give your comments please!!

Do a full 2.4 swap. Easy as can be. especially if parts are hard to come by for the swap. Do you have a auto or 5 speed. Auto's are easier, 5 speeds a little more work depending on if you use a TD 5 speed or a neon 5 speed.

Garffus
01-17-2007, 12:25 PM
I had a feeling that may be the case :thumb:

its an 87 Shelby z so i have all the bullet-proof internals and a555, so i guess the next question is....

1, keep the 555 or swap for neon box?

2, since the reasoning for doing this is to make loadsa power, can i utilise any of my TII internals?

Speedeuphoria
01-17-2007, 12:51 PM
you can use the rods in a 2.4 just have them sized for a .866 pin as the srt pistons. you can use the TD throttle body, save an alt pulley if you get an udp.

The swap is not all easy, electronics is something to think about, megasquirt is a great cheaper option Or a dizzy. Lots of things to think about, someone posted on the other site that it would be easier to build the hybrid. The 2.4 is quite easy to work on and the stock mls gasket is great. W/ an auto it almost bolts right in, but then you have to think about pwr steering(not hard) and A/c(didnt want).

Garffus
01-17-2007, 01:15 PM
you can use the rods in a 2.4 just have them sized for a .866 pin as the srt pistons. you can use the TD throttle body, save an alt pulley if you get an udp.

The swap is not all easy, electronics is something to think about, megasquirt is a great cheaper option Or a dizzy. Lots of things to think about, someone posted on the other site that it would be easier to build the hybrid. The 2.4 is quite easy to work on and the stock mls gasket is great. W/ an auto it almost bolts right in, but then you have to think about pwr steering(not hard) and A/c(didnt want).

ok, so srt pistons are different and have different pin size?

udp?

and... yeah, some may say the hybrid is easier, but is it feasable on an 87 block? square tooth front pully etc

R/T
01-17-2007, 01:50 PM
FYI:

I know a local car with an 87 TII 8 valve motor that makes near 400hp/400ftlbs at the wheels.

Stock block, no explosions, low 11's.

The block is stronger than people think.

turbovanmanČ
01-17-2007, 02:07 PM
UDP is underdrive pulley.

I don't believe anyone has done a Hybrid on an older engine, everyone uses a common block so you would probably have to make a custom crank sprocket to run round tooth or custom cam sprockets.

Check out this link, he used the stock 8v computer and wiring and made the dist fit the SRT4 engine-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9610

TurbododgePirate
01-17-2007, 03:39 PM
Garffus,

I am building a 2.4 right now. I am using a neon NVT350, but if I were you, I would use that 555.

The first thing on my PLOG http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10379
is building the megasquirt to handle fuel and spark control. The plog is as far as I have accomplished. I am working on it as fast as I can. The megasquirt can be made to handle fuel, and spark pretty easily, and it can be made with very little experience. Cost for the kit was about $530 including a 4 bar map sensor, IAT and bung, and the extra parts needed to control spark. Oh, it also included the unbuilt stimulator, and a relay kit that will control fuel pump relay, and some other items so I don't have to fool with them.

Speed woudl know more than I do (He has one that runs) but I think I woudl stay away from the stock 2.4 rods if I can avoid it. 2.5 turbo rods should be pretty cheap, and are bigger. If you want 2.4 rods... I have 4 here I have absolutley no need for. ~~H

Garffus
01-17-2007, 05:21 PM
Nice one guys, so..

errm

well now i have three choices :confused:

1, keep the 87 block 2, source a common block and 3, source a 2.4.

In my humble opinion these cars should have had better heads from day one. at least a x-flow head if still 8v, but im not gana talk about could have's or what if's. After all it was the lotus boys on my side of the pond that are the likely culprits for being slow and making an un-reliable head to late!

I'm feeling like i should try and make it work with my 87 block, id like to keep as much original car as possible and after all, i have access to excellent machining facilities, and that way i could even use the neon adj cam gears if I machined my own front pulley.

so i can use the electronics i have with a new cal, i would endeavour to use a megasquirt or similar mapable system at a later point.. but that saves a hole lump of cash on the initial build.

What extra obstacles do you see me hiting using an 87 block as opposed to an 89^???

Good info guys, feeling more confident already :)

turbovanmanČ
01-17-2007, 05:32 PM
Well as i pointed out, check out the link and you can make your dist work and just get a custom cal.

Have you read all the links and info on swaps? If you have access to machining then just keep your TII block and make it all work, :thumb:

Garffus
01-17-2007, 05:48 PM
thanks turbovanman, im looking!

I downloaded the dizzy sticky to utilise the cam phase mount, im going to the w/shop to start chewing lumps of billet on the mill.

Me and a mate cleared out a guys shop the other day and took three rotary tables, several different sized dividing heads and well over 100 different profile fly cutters for cutting sprockets/gears etc, gana go dig through them and see if i can match one to the neon cam gear profile.:thumb:

turbovanmanČ
01-17-2007, 05:49 PM
www.fwdperformance.com carries the Neon hybrid gears but there round tooth.

This guy is selling some hybrid stuff, you'll save a few pennies-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10746

Garffus
01-17-2007, 05:51 PM
oops that doesn't sound good does it :o

When i say cleared out, i don't mean robbed... the guy had passed away, his widdow wanted everthing gone

Garffus
01-17-2007, 06:04 PM
www.fwdperformance.com carries the Neon hybrid gears but there round tooth.

This guy is selling some hybrid stuff, you'll save a few pennies-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10746

hold on, can't i just put a round tooth front pulley on or are they different?

hmmm parts are tempting but i cant splash the cash this month

turbovanmanČ
01-17-2007, 06:29 PM
88 and older used a square tooth crank and 89 and up used a round sprocket. There not interchangeable but with your machines, you might be able to make it work.

whywoody
01-18-2007, 01:39 AM
Garffus,having access to the machinery you have would make the head conversion quite straight forward and reliable.I built mine with basic hand tools and a drill press,assembled it in the carpark at work,and left the block in the van during all this.It might not be pretty in some ways,but it was do-able and has been reliable so-far.
So I say GO FOR IT,make it work!

Garffus
01-22-2007, 05:58 AM
right, i don't have the neon cam gears with the head i got, looked everywhere!

should i make a crank pully to match the neon or the 89^ block.

and whichever i should use, would someone mind selling and sending (to the UK) a pully that i can use to copy.

Im guessing the 89^ will be easier, need the aux drive pully as well. Will that swap right over?

thanks

Garffus
01-24-2007, 05:10 AM
right, i don't have the neon cam gears with the head i got, looked everywhere!

should i make a crank pully to match the neon or the 89^ block.

and whichever i should use, would someone mind selling and sending (to the UK) a pully that i can use to copy.

Im guessing the 89^ will be easier, need the aux drive pully as well. Will that swap right over?

thanks

:bump2:

Hello... anyone got a round tooth aux drive and front pully i can have?? got a blank.. need something to copy !

turbovanmanČ
01-24-2007, 01:39 PM
right, i don't have the neon cam gears with the head i got, looked everywhere!

should i make a crank pully to match the neon or the 89^ block.

and whichever i should use, would someone mind selling and sending (to the UK) a pully that i can use to copy.

Im guessing the 89^ will be easier, need the aux drive pully as well. Will that swap right over?

thanks

I might be able to get some Neon cam gears so i'll have to price them out but i have a crank gear, $20 plus shipping.

Holley is from the Midlands, contact him, he's a member on here.

Garffus
01-25-2007, 05:24 AM
I might be able to get some Neon cam gears so i'll have to price them out but i have a crank gear, $20 plus shipping.

Holley is from the Midlands, contact him, he's a member on here.

Holley doesn't have anything post 87, we keep in contact. There was a 90' lebaron 2.5 that had a blown gearbox that went cheap over here, would have been ideal to use that engine rather than muck about with an 87 block, but 250miles from me and im not towing that far..lol