egr question

[TurboTurismo]

Hi all.......anyone know how a 1992 2.2 TBI that came with Canadian/Federal emmisions package and "no egr valve" or even a provision on the intake doesn't detonate(Ping) ??? basically how did Chrysler control this.? Retarding the timing thru Computer? I know if you take a factory egr system and block it off with a plate it pings horribly...........
Please advise

Robb

[turbovanman²]

Catalytic converter and obviously, a computer program that has less spark advance at cruise.

[TurboTurismo]

Hey man nice to hear from ya....So do you think I would be better off with my 90 intake and computer which works with egr? That way I can keep the car timed at 15 deg, I have it there now and do not have any ping noises...I dont want to put the computer in and intake without the egr provision if its going to be slower.....My understanding is that chryco had to program the timing to retard during cruise to help eliminate knocking and pinging and that may explain why my tbi with egr is quicker than the car I drove without factory egr..let me know your thoughts..

Thanks

Robb

[turbovanman²]

I would say the EGR setup would give you an edge especially if you run low octane gas, at WOT, they should be both the same as the EGR isn't turned on.

[22mopar]

minivans didn't have EGR on the TBI unitl like 1993. cars had it much earlier. minivans are considered trucks and have different emission requirements.

[TurboTurismo]

Hi 2.2, whats your opinion on the egr delete factory setup? Do you know how the chryco guys got around engine knock and ping..The vc label on the car says to time it@12 deg.. I have read that the egr system on the 2.2 and 2.5 were not very well designed and really only worked on the number 4cyl and hardly on the other 3

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2291434

[turbovanman²]

minivans didn't have EGR on the TBI unitl like 1993. cars had it much earlier. minivans are considered trucks and have different emission requirements.


He never said he had a van, ;)

My 90 TBI Minivan I just parted out has an EGR setup.

[22mopar]

He never said he had a van, ;)

My 90 TBI Minivan I just parted out has an EGR setup.

true he never said van... also EGR is one of them emissions items you don't see on ever vehicle. Never have I seen EGR on any GM Quad 4. a lot has to do with delivery destination. some states didn't have NOx testing, along with altitude, and climate may dictate what emissions package was put on. I went rounds with our local emissons test center because my 1992 caravan 3.3 did not come with EGR. however I had a hood from a 1994 that showed EGR and that's what the inspector was going off. so I had to go to my shop, get the manual for 1992 and show that this van didn't have it.

[turbovanman²]

Your right, Quad 4's don't, they rely on the CAT to do all the work. When I had my HO Grand Am, I cut the cat off and tested it, the NOx levels buried the meter, turned my white bumper yellow and the smell, ugg. Put a larger GM cat on for flow and went back, NOx dropped to almost zero.

[TurboTurismo]

Thanks guys, So in my situation where as my 84 did not come with a cat, I have installed a tbi setup with 90 sbec, egr and the solenoid, ... Now If I used the 94's intake w/o egr as well as the pcm from 94 which has the egr solenoid circut shutoff I would be stinkin up the air....so I guess I am better off running with the egr setup after all..unless I installed a cat on the 94 setup, plus I can run more timing with the egr as I understand.. My main worry with the 94 no egr was that the engine would ping at cruise .or Ma MoPar leaned out the pcm that car would be that much more of a dog ,,LOL.. :thumb: in conclusion I guess there really wouldn't be any real performance advantage to going with no EGR other than cleaning up the engine bay:cool:

Thanks for your help

Robb

[turbovanman²]

^^ well running the cat can be affected by your emission requirements if you have any. If the test is lenient, you will probably pass if your TBI setup is working properly but if its stringent, a cat will be needed.

If this is a DD, then the EGR will be up to you, you can run a bit more timing but in the end, will it really add more power? only TBI owners will know and its hard to tell as the EGR doesn't work at WOT, where racing and dyno's operate.

[TurboTurismo]

In Ontario My car is exempt....88 and up cars have to have it still, When cars turn 30 years old they are classed as heritage and need validation plates to mark them...In my current setup I run egr and the timing in and around 15 deg, no cat.. the car gets up and goes pretty good for what I have...as in most 2.2's tho I have a ton of power up top..I just wish my 413 auto had better gearing for around town.. My wifes 94 shadow w/o egr for some reason seems faster and also has a lockup which I have thought about installing in the 84,I currently have an 87 413w/o lockup. I just can figure out if I will loose any around town getup and go if I put one in..I really do not unsderstand how the lockup works to be honest
Robb

[turbovanman²]

Dodge played with the gearing alot so that could explain the difference. If you can get me the numbers on the trans, I can figure out what gearing it has. Drivers side front on the trans, just above the oil pan is a flat portion with numbers.

Lock up is simple, a torque converter is a fluid coupling so it will always lose power and slip, so this causes a higher rpm. Now inside the TC, they add a clutch we call TCC-torque converter clutch. There is an external connection by the dipstick that connects to power and ground. When turned on, a solenoid energizes a fluid passage that applies the TCC, and locks up the TC so now, its like a 5 spd clutch, it can't move. Now you have a solid coupling and the rpm's can drop 2-400 rpm.

[TurboTurismo]

Ok, cool. The car is tucked away for the winter right now BUT..I did get the tranny out of an 1987 dodge omni if that helps..I also have the hookup for the lockup tranny as I have sbec in the car..LOL it gives me a code for lockup not funtioning or something to that nature, I only get the code if I am checking them with the key on off deal..buy the way the sbec and wiring in the 84 is from a 90 dodge omni.....made the car look factory when I installed.It runs a ton better now without the carb and idle stop stuff, In the spring I have a 89 comon block tbi setup going in as my current setup has wicked piston slap......probably due to me using my 84 head on a 86 block...Dun know...... I am looking forward to exchanging it tho.....:thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Well if you want to know gearing, just get me the numbers of your wifes car and your trans, then we can see if there is a difference.

[TurboTurismo]

can't see nothing out there, not very light..I do know however the 87 tranny outof the n/a omni should be 2.78 or so. I think for sure her 2.2 tbi in 94 would have a taller setup as the car is heavier......sorry I couldn't read them , Ill have to get some brake cleaner and a better light to get the numbers

[turbovanman²]

No rush, :thumb: