PDA

View Full Version : First time at the track with my 87 CSX



mcglsr2
01-11-2007, 12:58 AM
well, this is the first time i've ever been to a track - driving that is. i've been to watch, but have never driven. it's definitely a blast :)

so, for those of you interested, i'll post my times - i only got two runs, both of which are really not good at all :( and i have some questions about how this whole track thing works as well as some about my car - please comment and make suggestions, i'm all ears...

so, first my car and modifications:
87 shelby csx
mods: a555 tranny, MBC @ 15psi, 3" exhaust (the dp is mostly 3" but is welded to a 2.5" flange section to fit the 2.25" SW) with a high flow Catco cat and and Dynomax Race Bullet muffler, 1G BOV, stock T2 injectors (804), Shelby Stage II ECU - everything else is stock, stock turbo, head, intake, exhaust, hell, i even still have the stock airbox on the car. the car run on street tires, the front two pretty much bald and in need of replacement. full tank of gas and my fat a$$, assorted stuff in the car like an amp, subwoofer, some tools, overall weight was ~3000lbs.

so the first run looked like this:
R/T: 0.634
60': 2.940
1/4: 16.518
MPH: 87.51

lol, so my first time out, eww :) i had the car around 2.5K and then dumped the clutch at the green, that was a mistake. i spun out for quite some time.

the second time i didn't rev it at all, i just took off. i ended up with:
R/T: 0.803
60': 2.770
1/4: 16.194
MPH: 92.32

so this seems kind of slow to me. granted, this is the first time i've ever done this, so i'm sure a lot of it is my inexperience. so, based on my car's current configuration, what's a good time to shoot for? i know the magazines of the time put it at like 15.5 from the factory. so is this reasonable? as i get better (and get new front tires), what should i see? also, when does the timer start - when the light turns green or when i leave the line? the second time, i was paired with a WRX, and i left way before him (he had like a 3s R/T so i have to assume he was waiting), and was ahead of him the entire time, but he got a 14.169...

any thoughts, fellas? but i do have to say it was a blast and look forward to getting out there again :)

BadAssPerformance
01-11-2007, 01:15 AM
Not bad for a first time out. First time i ever raced my '87 CSX #252 at the strip I entered a bracket race and dialed 16.60... I got tree'd in the finals and went like 15.80-something trying to catch up.

Drag racing is mostly about the launch an dthen shifting. IIR I was running ~2.3 60's.

Practice makes perfect, you'll go faster with more of it :thumb:

moparman76_69
01-11-2007, 06:51 AM
New tires and launching without spinning will cut down your short times for sure.

BIG PSI
01-11-2007, 09:36 AM
Work on lower your 60 foot times. Your goal is to get to 2.20 range and with more practice you may get a 2.10 range on street tires.

Try launching at 2,500 rpm and then do a shoulder roll technique with your feet. What this means is that you move your feet the same speed as you would move your shoulder backwards. LOOK at your left shoulder while you roll it back from a tilted forward position to a normal relaxed position. That is how fast you want your feet to work the gas pedal and clutch pedal.

Good Luck and have *fun*
Chuck Green


PS---just to give you an idea, my 89 PLy Acclaim on P185/70R14 Tires, running 14 psi of boost and a T2 intercooler I can cut 2.14 SIXTY foot times and have gone 14.90 through the exhaust. This is with full interior in a medium weight A Body

mcglsr2
01-11-2007, 04:47 PM
thanks for the comments, guys. i'll keep the shift speed/shoulder roll in mind - i'm pretty sure i wasn't shifting as fast as i should be.

and i will work on my 60' time. the WRX in the other lane the 2nd time had like a 1.967 60' time.

so the timer, when does it actually start? when i leave the line? that must be the case, as the subie didn't leave until a full 3 seconds after me but still had a faster 1/4 time...

mcsvt
01-11-2007, 05:04 PM
Yes time starts when you break the beam. Your reaction time will just go up if you sit there.

BIG PSI
01-11-2007, 06:03 PM
Must be NICE to be able to race in JANUARY

Chuck

mcglsr2
01-11-2007, 07:08 PM
Must be NICE to be able to race in JANUARY

Chuck

hey hey, it was a little chilly, like around the mid 50's...lol :)


Yes time starts when you break the beam. Your reaction time will just go up if you sit there.

that's what i suspected, thanks for the confirmation!

Directconnection
01-11-2007, 07:49 PM
87mph one run, then 92 the next. Either your shifting is slow, or you are over revving the engine. Try shifting around 5,500 rpms and not 6k+ Don't wing out 1st gear as you are wasting ET... short shift into 2nd and as Ken says... make 2nd do the work (as long as you're not shifting into 2nd at 2,500rpms.

2.3 60 foot is an attainable decent launch for a fwd on real street tires. Anything in the 2.4+ is considered pretty bad...but EASY to do with these cars. Heck... I had a 3.x something years back getting too gung ho one time.


I don't have the best advice, but besides slipping clutches and all... I used to wing it up to a tad under 4k. Now... when you sidestep the clutch, don't floor it. If you leave at just under 4k and sidestep the clutch, make SURE the throttle position stays the same amount that it took to make it rev 4k in nuetral and no more. What happens next (in my case) is the inertia of the engine in VACUUM just barely spins the tires, then they hook and when they hook (as good as street tires hook) the car will move on out and the rpms will drop to the low 3k which worked perfect for my car.. a '90 VNT Shadow. Then, you lay into the gas... not matting it, but lay right into it at the threshold of traction in 1st and try not to tach it to 6k. That was my problem... shifting out of 1st at over 6k.

This technique I speak of only has a window of a few hundred rpm. Rev too high on the launch...and you'll leave spinning it too hard. Leave too low, and bog city when the tires hook. At the track, I kept bogging on the launch and didn't realize the traction compound was actually making a difference, so I had to leave at almost 4,500.

mcglsr2
01-11-2007, 08:10 PM
Try shifting around 5,500 rpms and not 6k+ Don't wing out 1st gear as you are wasting ET... short shift into 2nd and as Ken says... make 2nd do the work (as long as you're not shifting into 2nd at 2,500rpms.

i will definitely try this. i'm not totally sure where i was shifting at, i've got a shift light integrated into my stock tach (i'll have to put some pictures up of this, it's pretty sweet) and i think it's set at 5200 RPM right now. i don't think i got up to 6K+...but i was for sure riding first all the way thought to the light - i'll try the short shift into 2nd.



2.3 60 foot is an attainable decent launch for a fwd on real street tires.

then this will be my goal the next couple times out - improve my lauch and short time. :)



If you leave at just under 4k and sidestep the clutch, make SURE the throttle position stays the same amount that it took to make it rev 4k in nuetral and no more...

so i'm new to this - i'm not sure what you mean by "sidestep" the clutch. all i really know about right now is either reving the engine, then dumping it to the gas (which caused my spinning - it looks like you are describing a modified way to do this without as much spin?) or just a normal take off (which is what i did the 2nd time). can you tell me a little more about what you mean by sidestep? and if you have any other pointers, as "obvious" as they may seem, i'm a noob here so i would greatly appreciate it.

lol, don't get me wrong, i've seen the fast and the furious, so i know *almost* all there is to know about racing... lol :rolleyes:

93sundance
01-14-2007, 01:58 PM
Once you get good at launching and shifting, that car will be running mid to high 14s EASY.

mcglsr2
01-14-2007, 03:41 PM
i went to the track again friday. i managed to get 4 runs in. the first 3 were, well, horrible. the first one i spun like crazy. the second one i bogged, and the 3rd i spun like crazy. the 4th one i started with the MBC off, then flicked it on in 2nd gear. that was my best run. didn't spin and didn't bog. i got the following time:

60': 2.581
1/8: 10.512 @ 71.82
1/4: 15.850 @ 93.20

the car was pulling wicked strong the entire way, my shift light came on for 5th right as i passed the traps. if i can nail the start off the line, the times will certainly improve. just got to work on that 60' time :) i'm getting new tires pretty soon so i think that will help. i think my clutch might be starting to slip - when i spin out i can certainly smell something, probably a combination of tire and clutch. so, it looks like i'm going to be looking at a new clutch pretty soon. i suspect that if i have to drop in a new clutch (i'm currently eyeing the TU "ultimate" ceramic stree n strip 6 puck - but i need to do my research) , i will also want to inspect/rebuild the tranny, put in a chrome moly plate and a quaife LSD...

Directconnection
01-14-2007, 05:38 PM
Did you have time to try out my technique? I suck at the clutch slipping technique and practicing it only made my clutch slip against my will. My way makes it alot easier. Leave at a certain rpm and squeeze the throttle down after sidestepping the clutch. (sidestepping = popping the clutch but I prefer to not "pop" it... kinda a mild pop...hehe)

93mph sounds pretty good now. 2.5.... still kinda bad, but alot better than 2.8!

You should be able to get 14.8 ets with that mph and on only a 2.2-2.3 60 foot.

mcglsr2
01-14-2007, 06:10 PM
...(sidestepping = popping the clutch but I prefer to not "pop" it... kinda a mild pop...hehe)

ahhh, so you literally mean side stepping the clutch - rather than releasing it up with foot, just drag my foot off to the side and let the springs bring it up..no, i didn't try this but i will :). i'll get it up to 4K or so and see what it does. i'll probably have to wait until new tires to try this, though. i'm not kidding when i say mine are bad :)

BadAssPerformance
01-14-2007, 06:21 PM
I'm not a fan of sidestepping the clutch.

mcglsr2
01-14-2007, 06:32 PM
I'm not a fan of sidestepping the clutch.

why not? is harder on the clutch? i'm looking to learn here :)

BadAssPerformance
01-14-2007, 07:10 PM
why not? is harder on the clutch? i'm looking to learn here :)

Personal preference, I do not see it being an advatage in launching a car.

As for 'harder on the clutch?'

Side-stepping = shocking it harder, so higher impact loads on the clutch and its pieces

Slipping = clutch wear

Take your pick, but any kind of racing will reduce clutch life!

mcglsr2
01-14-2007, 07:19 PM
6 of one, half a dozen of the other :)

Directconnection
01-15-2007, 07:22 PM
I was trying to say that I don't literally sidestep the clutch. I don't like the idea of letting the pedal pop up from snapping it off your foot. I prefer to bring it up with my foot still on top. Not as quick of a realease and I guess in my mind, gives the clutch a bit of a buffering vs popping it like some do.

mcglsr2
01-15-2007, 10:40 PM
I was trying to say that I don't literally sidestep the clutch. I don't like the idea of letting the pedal pop up from snapping it off your foot. I prefer to bring it up with my foot still on top. Not as quick of a realease and I guess in my mind, gives the clutch a bit of a buffering vs popping it like some do.

yah, i would feel more comfortable letting it up with my foot as opposed to just letting off of it :)