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mock_glh
01-03-2007, 04:31 AM
I finally got my Rampage project off the back burner after being dormant for a couple of years. This could have been the first of the hybrid conversions if I hadn't been so involved with other stuff. Brian Slowe beat me to it, and look at him now. I want some of that. Anyway, here's a few pics of what I've been up to lately.

johnl
01-03-2007, 05:04 AM
Hot diggity dog. :thumb: Nice. Describe the pics! Please:nod:

R/T
01-03-2007, 08:51 AM
Nice, what intake manifold??

Will Martin
01-03-2007, 09:01 AM
2.2 or 2.5?

mock_glh
01-03-2007, 01:28 PM
Nice, what intake manifold??

It's from a '95 Neon. I cut off the original plenum and added one made from 3" square tube. I cut off the original thermostat housing and used one from a "backward" 420A head instead, to allow removal of the manifold without spilling water, and to clear the timing belt.

Now that I've got everything mocked up, I'm seeing a lot more room for a larger plenum, which I'm sure I'll need to get the most out of this thing.

mock_glh
01-03-2007, 01:38 PM
Hot diggity dog. :thumb: Nice. Describe the pics! Please:nod:

The engine is a 2.5 with JE Neon pistons and custom length GRP aluminum rods. The head is from a '95 Neon and is modified to be used with the 2.2/2.5 head gasket. Head oiling is internal. The trans will be an automatic with a Turbo Action manual valve body, extra clutch discs, welded front band and an OBX diff.

johnl
01-03-2007, 04:46 PM
"2.5 with JE Neon pistons and custom length GRP aluminum rods"

Long rods? Pin close to piston deck? Room for low compression ratio dish? Or, are my guesses all wrong?

mock_glh
01-03-2007, 06:41 PM
The pistons are the same ones that would be used with stock rods in the 2.0 turbo application. The rods are made to bring these pistons to the proper deck height in the 2.5 block (and yes, John, they are longer). :nod:

R/T
01-04-2007, 01:46 PM
Head oiling is internal. .

How did you do that??? :confused:

ALSO:

On the oil returns from the head - why not tee into the turbo oil return on the driver's side??

mock_glh
01-04-2007, 04:48 PM
How did you do that??? :confused:

ALSO:

On the oil returns from the head - why not tee into the turbo oil return on the driver's side??

There is a cross passage from the back of the head to the cam tower. I drilled it the rest of the way to the front head bolt hole and welded the head to cover the hole in the block.

As for the drains, I don't want to have any backup issues with a single drain port.

2.216VTurbo
01-04-2007, 09:49 PM
Can you still be the king of cheap speed? With all those custom and go fast goodies I'm thinking you should shoot for king of moderately priced speed:lol:

By the way I remembered all those years ago when you started this project... Back then a hybrid 16V motor was an original and untested idea:D Are you sure it's only been a couple years in hiatus?

If we do this to you:whip: will the project be done in time for the Mopar Shoot out May 24-26 at Fontana?

2.216VTurbo
01-04-2007, 09:53 PM
Did I mention the local group is SLIGHTLY:rolleyes: excited about this project?

turbovanmanČ
01-04-2007, 10:42 PM
Looks good. Are you a plumber by any chance? :eyebrows:

Why did you go long rod? benefits?

mock_glh
01-05-2007, 12:11 PM
Looks good. Are you a plumber by any chance? :eyebrows:

I'm a guy who can't afford a plumber.;)


Why did you go long rod? benefits?

As long as I was getting custom rods and pistons, I figured I might as well go long. You can't put too long a rod in a 2.5. As it turns out, a standard compression height 2.0 piston was used and the rod is 6.15 IIRC. Mike at FM set me up with this.

turbovanmanČ
01-05-2007, 12:33 PM
As long as I was getting custom rods and pistons, I figured I might as well go long. You can't put too long a rod in a 2.5. As it turns out, a standard compression height 2.0 piston was used and the rod is 6.15 IIRC. Mike at FM set me up with this.

So what does this do for the engine? newby at rod ratio's.

Speedeuphoria
01-08-2007, 09:59 PM
So what does this do for the engine? newby at rod ratio's.


it puts less side to side stress on the pistons/pins(or front to back, depending on how you look at it)

johnl
01-09-2007, 02:52 PM
So what does this do for the engine? newby at rod ratio's.

This will help - http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm[url]

And more - [url]http://www.mayfco.com/rods.htm

johnl
01-09-2007, 02:59 PM
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm

Speedeuphoria
01-09-2007, 06:45 PM
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm

the last 2 paragraphs are basically what I was trying to say

turbovanmanČ
01-13-2007, 04:15 AM
Thanks guys.

ohiorob
01-13-2007, 10:05 AM
:thumb: nice work. got pics of the rampage?

mock_glh
01-15-2007, 11:49 AM
Here it is mocked up. Pardon the dust.

turbovanmanČ
01-15-2007, 04:18 PM
:wow1: nice bumper, ;)

mock_glh
01-15-2007, 04:34 PM
:wow1: nice bumper, ;)

It takes a Canadian to appreciate these things, eh? :bump2:

2.216VTurbo
01-15-2007, 07:14 PM
Sweet:eyebrows:

Boyd, that driveway looks pretty empty, can I park a couple of projects at your Dad's place:D ? Mine's all full and some new lost causes are calling my name:eyebrows:

iTurbo
01-15-2007, 10:00 PM
Is that a Treadstone intercooler? I've been thinking of getting one. How wide is the core on that one?? Looks fun, can't wait to see it finished!

mock_glh
01-16-2007, 12:12 AM
Is that a Treadstone intercooler? I've been thinking of getting one. How wide is the core on that one?? Looks fun, can't wait to see it finished!

It's a Godspeed Spec A. Core size is 25 x 6 x 3-1/2. Look one up on Ebay. Definitely low pressure drop.

lansingsportsrage
03-23-2007, 06:05 PM
If a person did this to an N/A car, would there be any noticable power increase ?

mock_glh
03-23-2007, 06:19 PM
If a person did this to an N/A car, would there be any noticable power increase ?

Consider this: A stock N/A 2.5 8-valve motor makes 100 hp. A stock N/A 2.0 16-valve DOHC Neon engine makes 150 hp. Need I say more? It's all about airflow.:nod:

MrRide2Low
03-27-2007, 11:15 PM
What are you useing as the turbo manifold?

rbryant
04-14-2007, 04:56 PM
I cut off the original thermostat housing and used one from a "backward" 420A head instead, to allow removal of the manifold without spilling water, and to clear the timing belt.


Are you planning on leaving the water outlet in the stock postion on a hybrid engine? If you do this only the #1 cyl will get significant cooling.... This is why everyone moves it to the drivers side.

The water will mostly go directly from the waterpump to the outlet both of which are on the #1 cyl if you use the stock 2.2/2.5 inlet and 2.0/2.4 outlet with no other provisions on a hybrid engine.

-Rich

mock_glh
04-15-2007, 02:34 AM
The water will mostly go directly from the waterpump to the outlet both of which are on the #1 cyl if you use the stock 2.2/2.5 inlet and 2.0/2.4 outlet with no other provisions on a hybrid engine.-Rich

Is that what it does on the Neon engine? I will be using a TIII water deflector in the block to direct the water toward the driver's side.

2.216VTurbo
04-15-2007, 03:10 AM
Is that what it does on the Neon engine? I will be using a TIII water deflector in the block to direct the water toward the driver's side.

Maybe do that water pump mod with the fitting in the housing leading to a line that goes over to the #4 side of the head?

rbryant
04-15-2007, 03:28 AM
Is that what it does on the Neon engine? I will be using a TIII water deflector in the block to direct the water toward the driver's side.

Hmm the cooling system on teh 2.0 and 2.4 appears to also do this but I would bet there is something controlling the flow. Perhaps the ports are different sizes or something.... I will have to take a look and see why the system is ok on the 2.0/2.4 but I would bet it does something that the hybrid setup doesn't take into account.

The deflector doesn't seem like it would do anything to help this problem because it is a pressure issue. You can start to direct water in a direction but ultimately if the pressure is higher in one place than another then it will take the path of least resistence...

The only area of lower pressure is on the thermostat outlet which is on the #1. All of the water in the others will be stagnant with nearly complete stagnation near the $4 cyl.

-Rich

Speedeuphoria
04-15-2007, 08:20 AM
the MLS headgasket has holes staggered in size to help direct flow

there have been many high HP 2.0/2.4 cars built and used this way w/o mods(even though it is a great idea, and will help)

mock_glh
04-16-2007, 01:33 PM
As I see it, the combined cross section of the 10 holes in the head gasket is about half that of the pump outlet. This should create enough of a pressure differential between the block and the head to supply ample flow to all cylinders, especially at high RPM. Anyway, I've also considered rerouting the pump output into the freeze plug at #4 cylinder.

R/T
04-16-2007, 10:26 PM
I'm thinking about the #4 end of the cylender head mod, going out the freeze plug to the heater hose.... :thumb:

GLH-T
04-17-2007, 09:32 PM
What are you useing as the turbo manifold?

.????

lancer402
04-17-2007, 09:46 PM
Nice work, I think my next one will use cooper tubing for the drains.

And I agree with speedphoria, I think it is, that the MLS head gasket has smaller holes around #1 cyl and larger holes around #4 to distribute coolant correctly.
Mine has been running for 50k and I think its doing ok.

ANdy

mock_glh
04-26-2007, 12:34 PM
What are you useing as the turbo manifold?

The one from AGP, along with their O2 housing (SRT-4 specific) and v-band adapter.

mock_glh
08-06-2007, 03:59 AM
Okay Alan 2.216vturbo, here's the latest report. The engine and trans, axles, radiator and intercooler are in the car. These things need to be done before it starts up:

Weld the curved outlet tube on the turbo.
Buy and install a couple of hose elbows and clamps for the I/C.
Get a hose for the turbo oil drain.
Extend the wires for the AIS, TPS and CTS.
Install vacuum hoses to the fuel regulator and BOV.
Cover the cam sensor hole.
Get (or make) a throttle body gasket.
Weld the wastegate dump tube to its flange.
Make up a chip for the computer.
Install the axle nuts.
Fill the trans.
Fill the radiator.
Fill the gas tank.

It should start at this point. I'll need to finish the exhaust from the downpipe back before driving it and the roll bar will need to be welded up before it goes to the track. :amen:

NeonShowCar
08-06-2007, 10:51 AM
Got any updated pictures of it ? Can't wait to see it in person. LEt me know next time you head out to IrwinDale - its very close to my work.

2.216VTurbo
08-06-2007, 12:35 PM
Okay Alan 2.216vturbo, here's the latest report. The engine and trans, axles, radiator and intercooler are in the car. These things need to be done before it starts up:

Weld the curved outlet tube on the turbo.
Buy and install a couple of hose elbows and clamps for the I/C.
Get a hose for the turbo oil drain.
Extend the wires for the AIS, TPS and CTS.
Install vacuum hoses to the fuel regulator and BOV.
Cover the cam sensor hole.
Get (or make) a throttle body gasket.
Weld the wastegate dump tube to its flange.
Make up a chip for the computer.
Install the axle nuts.
Fill the trans.
Fill the radiator.
Fill the gas tank.

It should start at this point. I'll need to finish the exhaust from the downpipe back before driving it and the roll bar will need to be welded up before it goes to the track. :amen:


So what you are saying is I need`to bring over my TIG welder, and while I weld, you burn the chip and we send one of your kids to PepBoys for the parts. Lets do it! Next couple weeks are pretty slow with my job... Do you have a 220V outlet with AT LEAST 40 amp breaker? 50 would be better...

mock_glh
08-06-2007, 01:00 PM
50 amps at 240 volts? How big is that thing? I'd have to check my breaker box to see what I've got but my Lincoln 255 mig welder works okay and my dad used to run a 7 hp overhead saw through some serious lumber with it. Tig sounds good though. Maybe this weekend. :thumb:

2.216VTurbo
08-06-2007, 01:06 PM
50 amps at 240 volts? How big is that thing? I'd have to check my breaker box to see what I've got but my Lincoln 255 mig welder works okay and my dad used to run a 7 hp overhead saw through some serious lumber with it. Tig sounds good though. Maybe this weekend. :thumb:


Search threads here for "bought a new TIG welder" something from last year will come up with pics of my then new toy:D You didn't get the idea that I am a good welder did you:o ? I can lay a bead that will hold but it sure wont win any pagents...

mock_glh
08-06-2007, 02:40 PM
Search threads here for "bought a new TIG welder" something from last year will come up with pics of my then new toy:D You didn't get the idea that I am a good welder did you:o ? I can lay a bead that will hold but it sure wont win any pagents...

You didn't get the idea that I would let YOU do it, did you? :lol:

mock_glh
08-12-2007, 01:34 PM
I finally got the engine finished in the Rampage last night at 9:00. I think the engine turned about 3/4 of a revolution and it fired on the first try. However, it lit up the power loss light and threw a bunch of codes so I'll have to figure that out. Also my internal oil passage to the head is apparently leaking into the water jacket. I think (hope) a sleeve will solve that problem. Stay tuned for pics and further notice.:D

turbovanmanČ
08-12-2007, 02:31 PM
Good job and bummer.

mock_glh
08-13-2007, 03:36 AM
Well, today I pulled the head off and checked for the oil leak and sure enough there was a small hole that was visible through the water passage. I made a short sleeve from some 5/16 brass tubing and pressed it into the hole to where it would cover the leak. Tomorrow the head goes back on. This week I get my exhaust kit from Racing Solutions, a muffler and suspension bushings from FWD, and some stuff for my intercooler plumbing.:)

Pandemoniac
08-13-2007, 10:54 AM
Sounds like you're well on your way to building the rampage I always wanted! Make sure to take vids!

jaysshelby
08-13-2007, 11:14 AM
lets see some pics