Progressive Alky Kits

[Ground Rat]

Is anyone on here using one? I would like a progressive kit and several gn/sy/ty guys have suggested this kit: www.alkycontrol.com (http://www.alkycontrol.com/)

Thoughts?

[Frank]

These are better....
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/

These are PWM not variable voltage.

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, I have a Devils Own, love it.

[Ground Rat]

Thanks for the link, I think I remember seeing a thread on this kit on TD a while back.

Simon, is it pretty simple to tune? Do you just watch an A/F gauge and listen for detonation when tuning, or do you have some sort of knock gauge?

[Speedeuphoria]

the sooner you turn it on the better. The air will cool off greatly and you should feel a power gain from that as long as you dont dump it it there and it bogs

[Ground Rat]

Also, what percent meth do you run? I would like to be able to run 100% meth.

[10G OMNI]

run what you like, i like 75% meth and the rest water.

Sometimes i run windshield washer 50/50 thats all that is

[Ground Rat]

run what you like
I meant Simon, heheh.

I plan on using windshield washer fluid unless it isn't enough. I want to be able to max out my stock TII turbo (blowing through a spearco 1080) on pump gas. How much boost do think think I'll be able to run?

[cordes]

I meant Simon, heheh.

I plan on using windshield washer fluid unless it isn't enough. I want to be able to max out my stock TII turbo (blowing through a spearco 1080) on pump gas. How much boost do think think I'll be able to run?

Much more than 24PSI, and I don't think you will see any real gains even with the alky regardless of setup.

[turbovanman²]

I run winter windshield washer fluid, its 50/50.

For you van, you probably won't see any difference due to the large Spearco but using alky, you can use 87 or 89 octane gas. I use 89 on mine at 23 psi on the street, :thumb:

[jckrieger]

I just installed the Devils Own kit on my CSX and can't believe how well it works. I mounted the pump on a sheet of aluminum where the AC compressor used to be and installed the nozzle right about where the stock intercooler would be. At 21-22psi the car is breaking the tires loose in 3rd gear around 4-5K RPM after a nice burnout through 2nd gear. I was using straight Ethanol for testing with the controller set to turn on at 17psi and be full on at 30psi. I'd like to start using E-85 with maybe 10% water in the future, but I think I'd be the first person to try using it for this application.

[DevilsOwn]

Glade you like it. Post up some pics.

[Frank]

You joined! Glad to see you and have you here!

[89DaytonaTII]

I use a Devils Own kit and it sure works for me.

Couple install pics, and one of the whole deal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/boostedshelby/bluecar-spring005.jpg?t=1167770078

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/boostedshelby/bluecar-spring006.jpg?t=1167770166

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/boostedshelby/bluecar-spring007.jpg?t=1167770187

[csxtra]

Is anyone on here using one? I would like a progressive kit and several gn/sy/ty guys have suggested this kit: www.alkycontrol.com (http://www.alkycontrol.com/)

Thoughts?


The alkycontrol kit is what Larry Jolliffe was running when he put down 500 whp in his TIII spirit. I am running that kit in my CSX, and Julio (the guy who runs alkycontrol) is a good guy to deal with (if a bit busy), and has been doing alky kits long before Devilsown came onto the scene.

The Alkycontrol kits are more expensive than the Devilsown kits, mainly due to the fact that Julio uses stainless-covered teflon lines with heavy duty stainless or brass fittings on them (corrosion resistant). the Devilsown and Snow Performance kits use the thin plastic lines. Both lines work fine, but the teflon lines are 100% safe for use with pure methanol, and have a higher burst pressure, in case of nozzle clogs. The teflon/stainless lines may be overkill, but I'd rather be safe than have something that burns invisibly spraying all over my engine compartment.

Aside from the lines, the pumps are the same (except Julio has done a mod to his pumps that makes them reliable with 100% alky--something that comes from having run these kits in Turbo buicks for a few years now). The controllers from each vendor have some different approaches and features. One feature I like about my alkycontrol progressive controller is the in-car gain adjustment knob and priming button, so I can be sure that the pump is primed and ready to go before a run.

And Frank, I believe that the Alkycontrol progressive controller is PWM, not variable voltage.

As far as performance, all the kits will allow for similar results, they just vary in the implementation details and prices.

Hope this helps,
Warren

[Pat]

And Frank, I believe that the Alkycontrol progressive controller is PWM, not variable voltage.



Can someone explain PWM (not sure what that stands for) vs variable voltage?

[Frank]

Yes.

PWM is short for pulse width modulation.

Now your brother could probably go over the top, but I think he would shoot right over our heads. ;)

When decreasing the voltage on a variable voltage circuit, you are decreasing the speed of the motor. HOWEVER this can be dangerous to the circuits. As you speed the motor down, the dwell time for each contact inside the motor is increased causing the current flow to actually increase! What is worse, that this limits you 40% speed.

On a PWM setup, you have a pulsed voltage with adjustable duty cycle to control the speed. The less duty cycle, the slower the speed. You can get down to 10-15% of the speed based on the loads experienced by the pump.


Frank

[Pat]

Yes.

PWM is short for pulse width modulation.

Now your brother could probably go over the top, but I think he would shoot right over our heads. ;)

When decreasing the voltage on a variable voltage circuit, you are decreasing the speed of the motor. HOWEVER this can be dangerous to the circuits. As you speed the motor down, the dwell time for each contact inside the motor is increased causing the current flow to actually increase! What is worse, that this limits you 40% speed.

On a PWM setup, you have a pulsed voltage with adjustable duty cycle to control the speed. The less duty cycle, the slower the speed. You can get down to 10-15% of the speed based on the loads experienced by the pump.


Frank

Thanks Frank....glad I asked you and not Dan!

Pat

[87csx2.4]

I use a Devils Own kit and it sure works for me.

Couple install pics, and one of the whole deal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/boostedshelby/bluecar-spring005.jpg?t=1167770078

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/boostedshelby/bluecar-spring006.jpg?t=1167770166

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/boostedshelby/bluecar-spring007.jpg?t=1167770187Hey you may want to move the location of your bov unless you like venting methanol in the motor compartment.:yuck:

[87csx2.4]

I run the smc progressive kit on my car with a 10 gph nozzle it work great especially when you have the ability to pull fuel in the map as the methanol starts injecting.At that point I set my afr's about 10.9:1 and it's about perfect on the egt's for my setup which is about 1680 deg.Your feel a pretty good surge of power come on when it starts because of being able to run more advance etc.

[87csx2.4]

opp's:thumb:

[boost geek]

I've posted on the Devilsown forum, but still haven't got a reply. I asked what the "dual nozzle upgrade" means. Is it actually a 2 nozzle setup, which is what I would like, or is it just an extra nozzle of a different size to use for tuning? I want to inject into the intake directly above runner 1-2, and 3-4. Also, should I order 2 gpm nozzles if I run them dual? I have a ported G head 2.2, +- 20 psi, 12x24x4" intercooler with 2.5" piping, modded intake, (3.3 elbow), +40s and afpr, stock turbo with ported to 2.5" swing valve, F.M. 3" dp, GLHS Stage 2 cal (want a G head cal, anyone???)
Also, do these nozzles screw in from the top? If not, I would order jets from another manufacturer. I would like to order a progressive kit this week.:thumb:
Here's my intake, still looks stock...
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1002.jpg

[glhs875]

I also run a progressive SMC kit with a 15gal (105pph) nozzle. Works great. I don't run race gas at all unless I plan on running at least 28+ psi. I have been running straight distilled alky (screw the water). But I plan to get some methanol when I go back to the track. It's alot cheaper. You can get way more aggressive with the tune with alcohol. One of my next changes involves raising my compression ratio up some to take further advantage of the benefit.

[boost geek]

So... would dual 2 gph nozzles be large enough for me, or would dual 3s or 4s be too much, if the "dual nozzle upgrade" means running dual nozzles?

[glhs875]

So... would dual 2 gph nozzles be large enough for me, or would dual 3s or 4s be too much, if the "dual nozzle upgrade" means running dual nozzles?

How much alky do you plan on running? A 15gal per hr (105pph) nozzle like I run can cover 130+HP

[boost geek]

I went on their nozzle calc, supposedly a 2.2 at 20 psi would need 3.85 gpm, 22 psi would take 4.24 gpm. Thats only like 2 gpm per nozzle. Too much alky would make the engine ping.

[Clay]

Too much alky would make the engine ping.

:confused: ???????????????????????

[boost geek]

:confused: ???????????????????????

Trying to find where I read that in the Devilsown forums, gonna get myself in hot water...

[boost geek]

Ok, it was a post on a 98 GTP, too much alky will pull timing and the sensor will detect knock. The Eaton 90 superchargers dont like much alky going through them, the knock sensor is almost too sensitive. On other posts, it just says too much alky just robs power, such as running pig rich.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/forum/supercharged-engines/too-much-alcohol-kr-617.html#post2817
I stand corrected...:p