Automatic trans options

[rdnoel86]

Could someone clarify the options for using an automatic trans hooked to a 2.4 for a TD swap? If I'm using a newer pt or srt turbo motor, do I have to use the 2001 3 speed neon trans? Or can I also use any older 3 speed 413 like dodge trans that bolts to the 2.4? What would be the best option for this set up? I've searched the forums and haven't found a decent answer.Thanx for the help!!

[turbovanman²]

You have to use the Neon A413, it has the same guts are our trannys but the diff is a bit stronger.

[rdnoel86]

Thanx!!:thumb:

[Speedeuphoria]

one thing to add is that the neon trans has a lockup converter and doesnt hold up in stock form to boosted power applications

[contraption22]

one thing to add is that the neon trans has a lockup converter and doesnt hold up in stock form to boosted power applications

What he said... but I will go a bit further. The input shaft of the trans is different because it has a lockup converter. Get an input shafte from a 2.2/2.5 turbo car and use that in your rebuild. You can then use a 2.2/2.5 turbo converter. It will bolt right to your 2.4 flexplate.

[TurboJerry]

Neon LU converter works fine. It already has 2 Torrington bearings. Either don't use the LU, or be carefull how you use it.

[Speedeuphoria]

or get a kevlar LU converter from Pats and its good enough to go mid 9's in a neon

[rdnoel86]

Great info guys, thanx!! Does Pat have a website and whats the pros and cons of running a lu converter? Right now I would lean toward the TD input shaft and TD converter. This combo would be used a lot for bracket racing at the track, if that makes a difference.

[turbovanman²]

Theres not really any pro's to a LU converter-there heavier, suck more HP, cost more to get.

[rdnoel86]

Ok, I definetely will go the TD input shaft route. I fount Pats via google. Does anyone have a recomendation on an aftermarket shifter for this animal? Thanx .....Don

[Speedeuphoria]

hurst promatic 2

and the bennifits of LU are that you are not slipping on the top end down the track(or better freway milage). Also the prepped LU inputshaft has held more power than the non LU shafts AFAIK.
Eitherway Pats(talked to Steve Bahr) can get you a great converter for whichever way you choose and great prices compared to other vendors.(he made me one for the 904 spline shaft I run)
He also includes 1 free adjustment on the stall, so if you ordered a 400rpm stall ad it only stalls 3500, then send it in and hell redo it.

[rdnoel86]

Hmmmm....just when I think I have it sorted out, more to think about!:confused: LoL. I'll research both a little more, still leaning towards the TD input and converter. Thanx everyone for pointing me in the right direction. Noone actually lists auto shifters for these applications that I have seen, so I'm guessing you just convert one over to use. Pro matic 2 looks like a nice unit that will look finished in the car.
Thanx again and Happy New Year
Don

[turbovanman²]

hurst promatic 2

and the bennifits of LU are that you are not slipping on the top end down the track(or better freway milage). Also the prepped LU inputshaft has held more power than the non LU shafts AFAIK.
Eitherway Pats(talked to Steve Bahr) can get you a great converter for whichever way you choose and great prices compared to other vendors.(he made me one for the 904 spline shaft I run)
He also includes 1 free adjustment on the stall, so if you ordered a 400rpm stall ad it only stalls 3500, then send it in and hell redo it.

I guess then you lock the converter in 3rd? Didn't know the lockup could hold that kind of power.

I can't see how the LU input shafts can hold more power, there hollow.

[Speedeuphoria]

yeah hit the LU at wot when you shift to 3rd(thats how Steve ran his neon) for some reason his polished heat treated hollow shaft(in an oven as described on Carl's trans page) held up to over 600whp, the non lockup may be lesser quality(although I'm not sure anyone has tried the same process on one of those yet)

and Pats Kevlar LU converter held that same abuse

but as I said the stock converter wont hold crap, you may try it once and it will be toast

[turbovanman²]

Very interesting, thats good info on the converter. I know the stocker wouldn't take it, :eyebrows:

[TurboJerry]

I run a stock 2.0 Neon converter. I setup the LU to disengage at WOT. The VB is set up only to LU in 3rd anyway if the solenoid messes up. I only use LU for gas mileage, because with a Kevlar, or Carbon LU lining, they still do *not* last long. I know Steve Locket only gets a few passes with his. I have cut open converters in the past to see that they are not durable enough for "full blast" and last long. I'm not saying it's not possible though. Maybe a multi-disc LU would be best?

[turbovanman²]

Thanks TJ, I knew it couldn't last, the converters are just too small, the surface area is just not big enough. I fried the LU in my big Dodge Van, 360 with 415 ft/lbs at the wheels, stock converter in a 5000lb van, towing and an A518 trans, :(

[TurboJerry]

Do the Sonnax valves in your 518. (the manual, LU, and PR) You'll have a much better chance at the LU staying alive with them. And checking the fluid in park is a + too........

[Aries_Turbo]

lockup issues...

you can also use a pressure switch to shut off the lockup circuit under boost so if you are at part throttle boost and not paying attention, you wont trash stuff. youll have to disconnect the circuit and connect a correct size resistor so that you dont make the ecm mad but thats not hard. a relay or two and you are all set.

Jerry, so the neon converter apart from the lockup issues is stronger than the older stuff due to the torringtons vs brass? if so, thats some good info to know.

you always could bolt the older trans to the newer motors and use the older flexplate and starter. one bolt doesnt line up but a small bracket fixes that. then again the neon already has the 4 clutches in both drums and 5-pinion planetaries iirc.

Brian

[TurboJerry]

Yes, the Neon converter is better. It also has the same stall as a turbo conv. (2.0L) The only thing is it has no timing marks. But a simple jig can be made to put them on. My friend tows a 20,000 lbs trailer with his 1998 3500 and the trans is fine after we rebuilt/modified it 3 years ago. It has a 5.9(360) with a 46RE(518 W/electronic governor)

[turbovanman²]

Look what I found guys, I asked him if he can do a Non LU converter-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Neon-670-A-2800-3200-Stall-Torque-ACC-Converter_W0QQitemZ320065212193QQihZ011QQcategoryZ 63692QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[looneytuner]

From what I remember about heat treating. What was done is just relieving stress in the metal? and just reducing the temper maybe. If the metal is not getting to the red stage and cooled in oils, ?????
Can someone else explain what I remember reading 40 years ago?

[rdnoel86]

Thanx Simon....now my head is starting to hurt from going back and forth on debating the lock up vs TD mod direction to go..:p :D ..lol anyway, great find, I may e-mail him to see if he will do a 413 tc. That seems like an awsesome price. Guy on local board has a Neon with a rebuilt auto with the body in real good shape, broke the timing belt, for $100.00. I may drag it home, take the beating from my wife for having another car in the yard and have a start on my trans project.......Happy new year!!

[turbovanman²]

I already did as I don't want the LU. He will probably respond tomorrow. If this guy really knows what he's doing, we might have found a new supplier. If he does them, I will wait until I get my TIII done so I dont' waste the 3 month warranty sitting on my shelf, :thumb:

[TurboJerry]

I have proven even on 7 sec cars that a LU converter isn't worth much. (ie the car looses 2 MPH, but runs the same ET) ET is what wins a race, so it doesn't bother me. An efficent converter seems to be the key. At $2.80 a gallon the gas mileage does bother me, hence the LU......

[Aries_Turbo]

Jerry, in your experience with our types of convertors (including the neon one) is the lockup stronger than the non lockup apart from the lockup function?

Brian

[TurboJerry]

The converters actually all have furnace brazed internals. The only reason the Neon ones are better is the 2 Torrington bearings insted of the fiber washer, and the turbine resting on the sprag housing. So yes, the Neon one is better......

[rdnoel86]

Hey Simon, any word from the tc guy yet??

[turbovanman²]

Hey Simon, any word from the tc guy yet??


No, I emailed him again last night but I found another vendor on Ebay, he gives a one year warranty but there $420.

[rdnoel86]

What is the trans id for the 2.0/2.4 neon 3 speed automatic?? (like a413 ect..) ...thanx

[turbovanman²]

Can't remember but he still hasn't got back to me, maybe you can drop them aline.

[Aries_Turbo]

31TH iirc

[rdnoel86]

Thanx Brian,
.